Well that worked out well!

[mark vincent]

Extracts from the Hamas charter



[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

There can be no peace whilst hamas is in charge, whether this justifies bombing them is another argument, but there can be no peace whilst they exist.

Who would you replace Hamas with?

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Jonesy "Don't panic, don't panic." The religious text you quote only has one message there. Forgive them, just as long as they convert to Islam.

but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them

Seems to me if they dunna convert then they're brown bread.

Sorry, I did not copy the whole of that link, just a precis. Buty you did not read any of it, obviously. You've only picked a bit of the precis that suited your view: "seems to me".
Here's another bit of that link:

To minimize hostilities, the Qur’an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur’an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added)

 

[Norcon]

Is this "insistence by God to make war" in the Quran, or in the "hadith", or in later variant interpetations of the Quran?

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

That is like quoting a sentence from the bible and suggesting that the whole faith is based on that sentence.
The verse that you quoted is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality.
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriks of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriks of Makkah to make amends.
Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful.” [Al-Quran 9:5]
Chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says: “If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Quran 9:6]

The Quran not only says that a Mushrik seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?
This is exactly what Allah says in the Quran to promote peace in the world.
http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_95_commentary/[/QUOTE]

A lot if inaccuracies in that link. This for example.....

"Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur’an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6)."

Is that what isis are doing in Syria and Iraq now?

Quite the opposite.. anyone not swearing allegiance to their intrepetation of the quran are having their heads blown off.

Did the killers of Lee Rigby offer him that choice?

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Extracts from the Hamas charter



[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

There can be no peace whilst hamas is in charge, whether this justifies bombing them is another argument, but there can be no peace whilst they exist.

This is from their 1988 Covenant.

In 2010 Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons." Hamas have moved away from their charter since they decided to go for political office.

The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region".

The Covenant arose from the occupation of Palestine when Israel was created by UN (as securespark mentioned), actually it was UK/French/US endorsed by it's predecessor: League of Nations.
Palestinians still regard Israel to be an occupier of Palestinian land. As Securespark said, that is the fundamental problem. Israel has not helped the situation by occupying and subjugating the Palestinians further, and Jews have also excacerbated the problem by immigration to Israel from other parts of the world.

But the Jews and the Palestinians (Arabs) have been warring over the area since time immemorial.

 

[longdogs]

Extracts from the Hamas charter



[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

There can be no peace whilst hamas is in charge, whether this justifies bombing them is another argument, but there can be no peace whilst they exist.

Who would you replace Hamas with?

Nuclear fall out

 

[jockscott]

Here's Hams's answer to the truce in the Middle East..

Hamas militants say they have fired several rockets into Israel, rejecting an offer to extend a 12-hour ceasefire in its Gaza operation until 21:00 GMT.

(from the BBC website tonight. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28504509 )

Kind of shows Hamas's true colours.. No doubt Elly will be on in a bit claiming Hamas , had to do this, (or claim BBC bias)

 

[JBR]

Extracts from the Hamas charter



[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement.

Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad.

There can be no peace whilst hamas is in charge, whether this justifies bombing them is another argument, but there can be no peace whilst they exist.

Who would you replace Hamas with?

The Israeli government, of course. Aren't the muslims in Israel presently permitted to practise their religion freely?

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Here's Hams's answer to the truce in the Middle East..

Hamas militants say they have fired several rockets into Israel, rejecting an offer to extend a 12-hour ceasefire in its Gaza operation until 21:00 GMT.

(from the BBC website tonight. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28504509 )

Kind of shows Hamas's true colours.. No doubt Elly will be on in a bit claiming Hamas , had to do this, (or claim BBC bias)

Hamas set out it's terms fo a ceasefire weeks ago, the withdrawal of IDF from Gaza and the lifting of the blockade.

The 12 hour humanitarian truce has just ended.

To attempt to extend ad infinitum that truce without agreeing terms is an underhanded propoganda trick. A propoganda trick that has been achieved.

Hamas set out it's terms. Those terms were not met. Hamas refused to extend the truce. Israel now has an apparent justified reason to escalate the war and blame Hamas for the escalation. Note, though that the IDF remains in Gaza!
Others have an apparent justified reason to blame Hamas for the violence and bloodshed.
Who said the first casualty is truth?
Perhaps the assymetry in weaponry is also reflected by assymetry in access to the propoganda machine.

 

[Norcon]

Here's Hams's answer to the truce in the Middle East..

Hamas militants say they have fired several rockets into Israel, rejecting an offer to extend a 12-hour ceasefire in its Gaza operation until 21:00 GMT.

(from the BBC website tonight. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28504509 )

Kind of shows Hamas's true colours.. No doubt Elly will be on in a bit claiming Hamas , had to do this, (or claim BBC bias)

Hamas set out it's terms fo a ceasefire weeks ago, the withdrawal of IDF from Gaza and the lifting of the blockade.

The 12 hour humanitarian truce has just ended.

To attempt to extend ad infinitum that truce without agreeing terms is an underhanded propoganda trick. A propoganda trick that has been achieved.

Hamas set out it's terms. Those terms were not met. Hamas refused to extend the truce. Israel now has an apparent justified reason to escalate the war and blame Hamas for the escalation. Note, though that the IDF remains in Gaza!
Others have an apparent justified reason to blame Hamas for the violence and bloodshed.
Who said the first casualty is truth?
Perhaps the assymetry in weaponry is also reflected by assymetry in access to the propoganda machine.

Egypt has blocaded Gaza and backs any Israeli blocades.

Egyptian TV stations and newspapers — which are overwhelmingly pro-government — have issued a stream of commentary that sounds a lot like what is coming out of Israel..
ie ( Hamas is to blame for the fighting and is exploiting Palestinian civilian deaths for its own gain)

From the Egyptian radio stations....

"Let Gaza burn with those in it," proclaimed Tawfik Okasha, a pro-military TV presenter known for his rabid anti-Islamist rhetoric. He praised Israel's leadership — "You are men," he said — for striking back against Hamas after the kidnapping and killing of three Israelis last month.


On Wednesday, in his first public comments on the Gaza crisis, Egypt's president did not even issue the usual Egyptian condemnation of Israeli "aggression."

OOh and btw hamas chief Khaled Mashaal, in a speech on Wednesday, demanded the immediate opening of Gaza borders "held by Arabs" — a clear reference to Egypt.

Can you believe it? Egyptians calling for Gaza to burn?

 

[collisioni]

Palestinians must like dying or they are thick.

 

[AronSearle]

Hamas set out it's terms fo a ceasefire weeks ago, the withdrawal of IDF from Gaza and the lifting of the blockade.

The blockade is justified, Hasas's demand was unrealistic.

 

[collisioni]

This thread is dead. Circles. Everyone keeps going around in them ,members just as the combatants. Next bunch of imported 'not wanted' on way ? Oh Of topic. BBC is biased and it is the gov mouth piece

 

[LanceCorpralJones]

Hamas set out it's terms fo a ceasefire weeks ago, the withdrawal of IDF from Gaza and the lifting of the blockade.

The blockade is justified, Hasas's demand was unrealistic.

Food. According to a UN report, importation of lentils, pasta, tomato paste and juice has been restricted

However, an Israeli official has conceded to the BBC that the attitude when compiling a catalogue of allowed items into Gaza - cinnamon was allowed, for example, while coriander was not - may not have been rational.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19975211
That's justified?
You'll also note that the blockade was because Hamas was elected and for no other reason, at the time. That's justified?

During the recent humanitarian truce the IDF continued to operate in Gaza, destroying the "infrastructure to persue the fighting", i.e they continued to destroy the tunnels. That's a strange kind of truce when the IDF just carries on as befofe. The only thing that the Israelis did was to cease firing shells, missiles, etc into Gaza. Hardly a credible truce by either side, apparently.
During a ceasefire one would expect the occupying force to withdraw, surely? Or is this some kind of one-sided truce? "We'll continue as before, less the shells and missiles, but we'll continue flying drones and planes and destroying your infrastructure, while you have to stop firing rockets?"

 

[jockscott]

i.e they continued to destroy the tunnels.

Tunnels also used for Hamas incursions into Israel. Totally justifies blowing the tunnels up.

 

[ellal]

I've yet to actually see in your own words a condemnation of the Hamas rocket launches. Will we ever see you condemn these?/ (I think not)
As I previously stated, the main jist of your posts, is to condemn Israeli action.

As I said before...

How thick are you?

I would have thought that saying "However I condemn the violence from wherever it comes" was fairly obvious in its meaning

However since you are probably the bluntest 'tool' (more than one meaning there ) in the DIYnot toolbox then I shall make it easier for you to (hopefully?) understand...

"However I condemn the violence from wherever it comes - whether it be Hamas rockets or Israeli military action"

Good enough for you?

Please do though carry on showing your ignorance - it gives us a good laugh at your expense

My observations are based on what I believe is acceptable/unacceptable actions, and an understanding of the origins of such actions!

You probably have trouble counting above 10 with your shoes on!