What’s the correct cable for switched live extractor?

[ebee]

Well it is pedantic an incorrect to say that T&E does not stand for Three core and earth or triple and earth, it stands for all of those although i our trade the most common usage would be twin and earth. And that is without refering to Alice through the looking glass.
Personally i do not mind a few well chosen acronyms or abbreviations or simalies but outside of a few well chosen ones then some of you may have noticed a few times that i ask fro clarification of a a term as it could mean so many different things to people in different context..
Is an MP a Member of Parliament or a Military Policeman for example?.

Anyway back to the plot. Not the tidiest of jobs but i have seen much worse. You should have three Live conductors. Being Switched Line and Permanent Line and Neutral plus an Earth (even if not used it should be present for future use) and should be Brown and Brown and Blue with a Green/Yellow striped Earth in today's colours but a few years ago it would have been Red and Red and Black with a Green or G/Y striped Earth.. it was often common to see Red and Yellow and Blue in the old colours and sometimes is not unknown to use Brown and Black and Blue nowadays but really those colours should be sleeved over for clarity.

There are other permutations going back earlier and sometimes numbers/letters might be used.

Often, even electricians might refer to Live and Neutral but ,strictly speaking they are both Live because they are current carriers in normal operation (now I am being a little pedantic) Also the Lines could be referred to as Phase even in a single phase system.

The main aim is to make it clear to all what is what..
It really should be 4 core flex to the fan sleeved or in some way (note the flex terms include the earth as one of those 4 when we talk about flex) and a few years back there is was even four core flex that was Brown and Black and Black and an Earthwire just to confuse again in common useage, I think the origin was some European countries had Brown and Black and Black as their three phases. Do not join two Blacks together in that system!

 

[RandomGrinch]

You should have three Live conductors. Being Switched Line and Permanent Line and Neutral plus an Earth (even if not used it should be present for future use)

I've suggested this before, and haven't yet been disuaded otherwise!
But couldn't the regs on this be open to interpretation?

Regulation 411.3.1.1 states: “a circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a lampholder having no exposed-conductive-parts and suspended from such a point.”

With "fixed" wiring, couldn't the end point or accessory be classed as the FCU?
After all, I could buy a double insulated metal radiator (I've PAT'ted many De-Longhi's) with an attached two core flex and plug, mount it to the wall, cut off the plug and connect it to an FCU (similarly to many wall mounted TV's).
To comply with the regs, should I really rewire the heater, or TV, to provide an unused CPC?
In this case, an extractor fan could be classed to have "fixed" wiring; however, from an appliance standpoint, with a DI symbol, cable grips and a proper enclosure, it isn't really any different to a TV - or put another way (depending on the design), if I fitted an extractor fan with a two core flex and a plug, would it fail a PAT?

 

[Risteard]

Well it is pedantic an incorrect to say that T&E does not stand for Three core and earth or triple and earth, it stands for all of those although i our trade the most common usage would be twin and earth. And that is without refering to Alice through the looking glass.
Personally i do not mind a few well chosen acronyms or abbreviations or simalies but outside of a few well chosen ones then some of you may have noticed a few times that i ask fro clarification of a a term as it could mean so many different things to people in different context..
Is an MP a Member of Parliament or a Military Policeman for example?.

Anyway back to the plot. Not the tidiest of jobs but i have seen much worse. You should have three Live conductors. Being Switched Line and Permanent Line and Neutral plus an Earth (even if not used it should be present for future use) and should be Brown and Brown and Blue with a Green/Yellow striped Earth in today's colours but a few years ago it would have been Red and Red and Black with a Green or G/Y striped Earth.. it was often common to see Red and Yellow and Blue in the old colours and sometimes is not unknown to use Brown and Black and Blue nowadays but really those colours should be sleeved over for clarity.

There are other permutations going back earlier and sometimes numbers/letters might be used.

Often, even electricians might refer to Live and Neutral but ,strictly speaking they are both Live because they are current carriers in normal operation (now I am being a little pedantic) Also the Lines could be referred to as Phase even in a single phase system.

The main aim is to make it clear to all what is what..
It really should be 4 core flex to the fan sleeved or in some way (note the flex terms include the earth as one of those 4 when we talk about flex) and a few years back there is was even four core flex that was Brown and Black and Black and an Earthwire just to confuse again in common useage, I think the origin was some European countries had Brown and Black and Black as their three phases. Do not join two Blacks together in that system!

It's not "pedantic and incorrect" - it's a simple fact that T&E refers to Twin & Earth.

 

[pete01]

Maybe not.

 

[Risteard]

Maybe not.
View attachment 358974

Clearly we are speaking in terms of cable types and not any other utterly irrelevant thing.

 

[ebee]

It's not "pedantic and incorrect" - it's a simple fact that T&E refers to Twin & Earth.

Yes agreed T and E stands fir twin and earth. But it also stands for Three ycore and earth and also stands for triple and earth. It no doubt stands for other things in other settings to. That usage is up to the user of the term. It is not for you to decide that an original user was incorre to use of a term that does not mean what the majority might use it for. Not quite Alice but there are many possible uses for terms in certain contexts and that is why, in all but the absolute, most common of a very few terns etc the user should make very clear at first usage in a statement what they actually mean for that purpose. It is for the user to decide what they mean, how they mean it and when they mean it.. it is not your job to decide that they mean some alternative and that is exactly why they should make their use crystal clear.

 

[securespark]

It doesn't though. T&E as a cable type ALWAYS means Twin & Earth.

No, definitely not.

I met a manager at the Doncaster Cables factory a few years back.

He referred to three core and earth as
T & E:

Triple and Earth.

Although T&E is also referred to as 6242 and 6243 here.

 

[Risteard]

No, definitely not.

I met a manager at the Doncaster Cables factory a few years back.

He referred to three core and earth as
T & E:

Triple and Earth.

Although T&E is also referred to as 6242 and 6243 here.

He may have done, but he was wrong.

 

[ebee]

He may have done, but he was wrong.

Just because they are conventions that most people (or electricians ,perhaps, in our example) use/Do not use) does not define them as being right or wrong but maybe most common and less common and least common , that is way that at least when a topic is discussed the first example of use of acronyms and abbreviations etc etc should make aclear intention of the actual meaning intended by that actual user.
It all helps make it clearer.
There are very few words or phrases that universally means the exact same to all persons . Hence the Alice statement, although as used by Alice it was actually penned with humorous intent.

T and E most commonly is used by most folk to mean Twin and Earth but it by no means wrong for have other meanings too.

I suspect perhaps a deliberate wind up.

I used to work with someone who might have appeared as a deliberate wind up merchant but we all realised that he was not, he actually believed the things he said, he used to annoy a few folk but most of us not because we realised he always had the best of intentions in his deeds and his statements and he never had the intention of causing harm or offence but his ridiculous statements became quite legend between those of us who knew him.
In fact, some of his crackpot statements are remembered by us for all time for particular usage because of the funny uses of such statements , we sometimes had to retire to another room for a right good laugh or even a blood curdling scream for absurb statements. It could brighten up a dull day!

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Hence the Alice statement, although as used by Alice it was actually penned with humorous intent.

As I mentioned before, the last time you said this, Alice didn't say it. It was Humpty Dumpty.

 

[Risteard]

Just because they are conventions that most people (or electricians ,perhaps, in our example) use/Do not use) does not define them as being right or wrong but maybe most common and less common and least common , that is way that at least when a topic is discussed the first example of use of acronyms and abbreviations etc etc should make aclear intention of the actual meaning intended by that actual user.
It all helps make it clearer.
There are very few words or phrases that universally means the exact same to all persons . Hence the Alice statement, although as used by Alice it was actually penned with humorous intent.

T and E most commonly is used by most folk to mean Twin and Earth but it by no means wrong for have other meanings too.

I suspect perhaps a deliberate wind up.

I used to work with someone who might have appeared as a deliberate wind up merchant but we all realised that he was not, he actually believed the things he said, he used to annoy a few folk but most of us not because we realised he always had the best of intentions in his deeds and his statements and he never had the intention of causing harm or offence but his ridiculous statements became quite legend between those of us who knew him.
In fact, some of his crackpot statements are remembered by us for all time for particular usage because of the funny uses of such statements , we sometimes had to retire to another room for a right good laugh or even a blood curdling scream for absurb statements. It could brighten up a dull day!

As a cable type, T&E only refers to Twin & Earth cable. That is an incontrovertible fact. It has never meant "Triple & Earth" or any other imagined thing. That cable type is known as three-core & Earth. It isn't shortened.

 

[Notch7]

Oversleeving the Green/Yellow of flex to use as live was technically allowed at one time, but was always considered rough as, plus there was still a requirement to have a CPC provided at the equipment even if it didn't need one. Its now changed and the prohibition on doing so now extended to all cable types not just unsheathed conductors in containment (doing it with the e in t/e is and always was, not-allowed due to the fact that it is un-insulated - and is a much more serious non-compliance than oversleeving an insulated conductor)

Damn, I was just going to put a bit of sleeving on the T&E

Oh well off to screwfix for some flex

 

[ericmark]

I would have added my 6 pennies worth, but it seems, I am not qualified.

think it is daft, but it seems Part F means this is now a heating and ventilation engineer's job.

 

[ebee]

As a cable type, T&E only refers to Twin & Earth cable. That is an incontrovertible fact. It has never meant "Triple & Earth" or any other imagined thing. That cable type is known as three-core & Earth. It isn't shortened.

So then, S T F U only stands for "So Then Finally Understood" and does not ever stand for anything else? RIGHT, GOOD, I am glad we have got that one settled at last

 

[ebee]

As I mentioned before, the last time you said this, Alice didn't say it. It was Humpty Dumpty.

Sorry for missing that comment, I knew it was pointed out in the "Alice" story but I was not aware of who had actually said it. So thank you for clarifying that one for me.