What is the point of the smart meter monitor?

[ericmark]

Smart meters were never really about displaying your energy consumption so you can reduce it. This was the Government propaganda to try to popularise them and persuade us all to accept them.
The real purpose of them is electricity (and probably also gas) "demand management", which is Govt speak for rationing. Smart meters enable "dynamic pricing" for electricity and gas to be used, which is more Govt speak for putting up the price immediately when there is heavy demand to try to discourage demand. In extremis, smart meters also allow the remote turning off of electricity (not gas AFAIK) to "manage demand" when wind & solar can't keep up with demand, and all other sources of electricity have either been banned or are not in operation.

This was also what I felt, however they can help reduce our bills, and if I do have a power cut, I still have freezers and central heating working, so rather silly not to have a smart meter when one has solar panels and battery. From 0 hours to 8 hours my tariff is under 9 p a kWh and other times gone up less than 1 p a kWh and standing charge has gone down.

So I recharge battery from 0:30 to 7:30 so this will supply the house until sun comes up, and so I have an small window from around 21:00 to 0 when I pay high rate. Also when having a shower.

But watching the monitor it shows using around 3 kW when having a shower, as getting 3 kW from battery and up to 6 kW from solar.

So the monitor is rather useless. It was this monitor that I started the thread about, as an electrician I have many ways to monitor and record electric used, however all the hype on TV I did expect more.

It sits under the TV, and use power from grid and one can see green amber red we ease, but into the grid, and shows green without much movement into green can't see how much without going right up to the display.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Suppliers (not the government) could, "put up price immediately" when demand was high, but I doubt that many consumers are going to be forever glued to a monitor so that they can "immediately" respond to the price change by reducing their consumption.

What I seem to be seeing, is the exact opposite to that - people making good use of cheap energy, when cheap energy is offered.

 

[SUNRAY]

If/when 'rationing' is required, what better way of implementing it would you propose? In any event ....

Suppliers (not the government) could, "put up price immediately" when demand was high, but I doubt that many consumers are going to be forever glued to a monitor so that they can "immediately" respond to the price change by reducing their consumption.

I know several who have computer permanently monitoring the buying and selling price and dump their battery power into the grid automatically when price reaches a threshold and even charge the battery when the cost drops to zero or lower.

If demand exceeds supply, some consumers are going to have their electricity supply 'turned off';, whether by smart meters or the 'regional shutdowns' we have experienced in the past. I don't see why using smart meters for this purpose would be any 'worse'than alternatives, would it?

Kind Regards, John

I think that would encourage energy theft.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It sits under the TV, and use power from grid and one can see green amber red we ease, but into the grid, and shows green without much movement into green can't see how much without going right up to the display.

So, the same data, but presented on your phone/tablet, and or PC would be useful - the mini exactly does that..

 

[JohnW2]

I know several who have computer permanently monitoring the buying and selling price and dump their battery power into the grid automatically when price reaches a threshold and even charge the battery when the cost drops to zero or lower.

I know a few of them, too, but do you seriously believe that they represent a significant proportion of the 'general population'?

I think that would encourage energy theft.

I don't understand that comment - could you perhaps clarify. The point I was making (and you quoted) was that if there have to be power cuts because demand exceeds supply,it makes no difference what 'technology' is used to 'cut' the supply - and I don't see what that has to do with 'ebnergy theft'.

 

[ericmark]

So, the same data, but presented on your phone/tablet, and or PC would be useful - the mini exactly does that..

The change between green and amber is around 1.75 kW and is easy to see, the export screen however the green segment is about ¼ of the dial movement and is moves that little one needs to read the actual figures, even at 2 kW the needle hardly moves. This

is so small, I need glasses to read it, this from the solar does show how much used,

but only really interested in what has been used from 21:46 when my battery hit 10% before I changed tariff I was using between £2.50 and £3 per day, but I have no current readings, so a bit useless.

 

[SUNRAY]

I know a few of them, too, but do you seriously believe that they represent a significant proportion of the 'general population'?

I'm sure you're right

I don't understand that comment - could you perhaps clarify. The point I was making (and you quoted) was that if there have to be power cuts because demand exceeds supply,it makes no difference what 'technology' is used to 'cut' the supply - and I don't see what that has to do with 'ebnergy theft'.

I feel that some users would have a temptation 'bypass' the meter if they thought they were being denied energy despite it entering their home.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm sure you're right

I feel that some users would have a temptation 'bypass' the meter if they thought they were being denied energy despite it entering their home.

Oh, I see. I must say that I hadn't thought of that (and doubt whether a significant number of other uses will have done,either!).

In that respect, it's really not that much different from ';having one's supply cut off' by someone gaining access and removing the cutout fuse - but I can't say I've heard of people taking measures to 'get at' the electricity that was"still entering their home" in that situation.

 

[Mister Banks]

Months ago, I requested a free 'mini' device, something only offered by Octopus - there has been quite a demand for them, hence the wait. Today, I received an email, advising me that it is on the way to me, quite looking forward to it....

From what I can make out, it feeds the consumption data, every few seconds, via the internet, to an Octopus server, where I can access it via an app on the phone, or a webpage - as such, I should be able to access the instantaneous consumption data, from anywhere I have internet access. Is this lack of instant access, what Eric is complaining about?

I have the mini hence why I have instantaneous demand data.

 

[bernardgreen]

The point I was making (and you quoted) was that if there have to be power cuts because demand exceeds supply,it makes no difference what 'technology' is used to 'cut' the supply

The technology of the "Smart Meter" allow for individual properties to be cut off without any need to access the cut out.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I have the mini hence why I have instantaneous demand data.

I already have that, but via the less useful IHD, which is only able to work when located close to the meters.

The mini, should add an extra, very useful layer, where I will have access to the data from anywhere.

 

[ericmark]

The display does show hours, days, weeks, months. However I can only access today, can't access yesterday. The app shows on the 26th Feb I used used £2.14 worth of electric, since then my tariff has changed, and also changed how I use the power, I now charge battery from 0:30 to 7:30 (cheap rate 0 to 8:00) and clearly interested to see if the change is reducing my bill.

So I saved the full day yesterday and intended to look at daily bill to compare, was in bed at midnight so when down this morning to have a look, but the display as said does not show yesterday.

So I have this

so I know midnight to around 10:30 today I used £1:30 and since since 7:30 not used any power from grid that seems to be my over night use. But as to from 21:41 to 0 that is unknown. To equal what was used before tariff change I need to use less than 86p for rest of day.

It does seem the same basic IHD has many sub versions, so will connect to the internet, and allow input of info required for pre-paid use, the big thing as far as I am concerned is if the time is out, clearly do not want to charge battery during the high rate time, since not had either solar power or smart meter in the summer, not a clue if they change from UTC to DST or not, in hind sight maybe it should start charging at 1:00 am so does not matter.

But fact is neither the IHD nor the phone app give any really useful info as far as usage goes. The "Smart" meter clearly helps in using cheap electric and getting inshallah some payment for power exported. So I hope electric will not really cost me except for standing charge. But the IHD and app are basic useless. 10 days lag in the info being updated means the app is useless, and not being able to view day by day means IHD is useless.

 

[Mister Banks]

I already have that, but via the less useful IHD, which is only able to work when located close to the meters.

The mini, should add an extra, very useful layer, where I will have access to the data from anywhere.

Sorry I don’t understand! You say you already have a mini but then say you are expecting a mini.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Sorry I don’t understand! You say you already have a mini but then say you are expecting a mini.

Not that I am aware???

For many years I have had the IHD. In October, I heard about, and requested a mini. This week I was advised by email, that the mini is about to be delivered. I already have access to the instantaneous consumption data, via the IHD, but it's not very useful on that.

 

[JohnW2]

The technology of the "Smart Meter" allow for individual properties to be cut off without any need to access the cut out.

We know that, but we are talking about wide-scale power cuts (due to insufficient supply to service demand), and
such 'cuts'are certainly not achieved by sending thousands of people out to countless properties to pull cutout fuses