wheel bolts removal.

[Mottie]

I always assumed that the torque (twisting force) figure of a particular nut/bolt is initially determined on a dry thread/seat. If the thread/seat is lubricated it will tighten further before reaching that torque figure. On the other hand, some nuts/bolts do require lubricating to reach the correct torque setting. All determined during development by the manufacturer so I suppose they must do some testing when designing something.

Tyre shops don’t even bother with torque setting, they just gun them up until the will go no more. They’re usually the ones you can’t get off. They often have uncalibrated tyre inflators and sticky string to carry out puncture repairs without even removing the wheel from the car never mind the tyre from the rim to check for internal damage.

I'm not for one minute suggesting I follow all settings to the book but when you are training and testing students, you have to show them the correct way. Like when you’re learning to drive - you do it by the book and when you’ve passed, well, you know!

 

[Mottie]

Not necessarily, if they'd been tightened about right they'd probably have come off OK after say 6 months, but if they've been on a few years and got rusty it's a different story.

If they’ve not been off for a few years then I’d be concerned as to how the brakes have been checked during a service. I service (and mot) quite a few cars once a year on a regular basis and in 25 years I’ve never had a wheel nut get rusted on. I’ve often had the odd wheel that has needed a long bar to loosen the nuts and when I ask the customer if they've had that tyre replaced or repaired elsewhere, the answer is always “Yes, I had it done at a tyre shop”.

 

[fixitflav]

May I ask - why?

I, a very old amateur, have always greased wheel nuts with copper grease and never had a problem - nor any comment from tyre shops when they have had to remove the wheels.

Same here. Looks to me like Ford are making a black art out of something simple. What "condition" are they referring to? Maybe the rest of the manual makes it clear. And does it refer to nuts for alloy wheels which (if they're like mine) have a cone-shaped ring free to rotate, or solid nuts with a cone end?

 

[fixitflav]

If they’ve not been off for a few years then I’d be concerned as to how the brakes have been checked during a service. I service (and mot) quite a few cars once a year on a regular basis and in 25 years I’ve never had a wheel nut get rusted on. I’ve often had the odd wheel that has needed a long bar to loosen the nuts and when I ask the customer if they've had that tyre replaced or repaired elsewhere, the answer is always “Yes, I had it done at a tyre shop”.

OK thanks

 

[rsgaz]

What "condition" are they referring to?

Just the column on the left, "seized wheels nuts"

And does it refer to nuts ... have a cone-shaped ring free to rotate

The only reference to the "conical washer" (as they call it) in the whole manual, is the differing torque. It's 130Nm for most nuts, but 110Nm for conical washer ones.

 

[fixitflav]

Just the column on the left, "seized wheels nuts"

Missed that D'oh

The only reference to the "conical washer" (as they call it) in the whole manual, is the differing torque. It's 130Nm for most nuts, but 110Nm for conical washer ones.

OK thanks, interesting

 

[Mottie]

Hmm. My Autodata data book AND wall chart tell me 90Nm for a Focus.

 

[rsgaz]

The Mk2.5 facelift manual (2008-on), not the workshop manual I was on about before, says...

Were the early models 90Nm then? When it was 4 stud M10, pre 2005.

 

[Burnerman]

I was taught, in the days of yore studying metallurgy or whatever, the taper on the old steel rims was distorted by the tapered nuts making them doubly safe. I can't see how that relates to alloys though but I've never come across one slack.
Done a few knackered laser cut nut keys though, got away with most but had to break the wheel on one occasion.
John

 

[Mottie]

I knew I had one somewhere.

Anyone else on this thread been specifically trained in torqueing?