Where can I learn how to change a consumer unit?

[ericmark]

Down load the free forms from the IET website, and look at what needs filling in. It will ask for earth loop impedance, RCD tripping times, seem to also remember insulation resistance etc. And you will need a meter to measure them to do nothing more than fill in the form, to me the form is a check list so I don't miss anything.

I would allow around £750 for test gear, of course having the gear does not mean you can use it safely, but you clearly can't use it if you have not got it.

I watched an electrician at my dad's house trying to fit a consumer unit without proper test gear, he was really pulling his hair out, this was before 2008 so he was able to leave the house without RCD protection on some circuits, today you have not got that option, I also don't have all the tools, my clamp-on ammeter will only go down to 100 mA bought it in Hong Kong before I left for around £30 ($350 HK) but to get one to measure DC and down to 1 mA this one at £93.42 is likely one of the cheaper models you can buy.

When I misplaced my megga I got a cheap one for £35 however it does not measure low ohms, and it is not calibrated, OK for DIY not OK for commercial where you need to enter the meter serial number on the test sheet.

My son has said to me, why don't I start doing EICR's no repairs just the report, I have the test gear and qualifications, only need the insurance, however it's all well and good in theory, but in practice if I find a C1 it has to be corrected or lock off power, and a C2 the owner has only 28 days, so who would want an electrician who will not correct faults? In practice it's all or nothing.

The same applies to other electrical work, 90% in England may not need a compliance certificate, a minor works is good enough, so for 90% you don't need scheme membership, and in theory the odd one you pay LABC their fee, and get a completion certificate instead. But in the real world it does not work, the job expands, you did not on starting think it would need a compliance certificate but faults found while doing the job have changed that, and it would cost a lot of money paying the LABC so in real terms you need to be a scheme member.

So as to qualifications you need to ask the scheme providers, what is the minimum they will accept. And what will that allow you to do, I seem to remember Corgi was a scheme provider, but they only authorised a limited amount of work its members could do.

As said I did 5 years, my dad did 7 years or at least should have done, WWII reduced that for him, what he should have done was 5 years in one firm then 4 lots of 6 months in other firms called the journeyman, plus night class. The reason mine could be reduced is because I did day release as well as night classes so more taught in collage. Today they have block release so even more taught in collage, however since finishing my apprenticeship I have returned to collage many times, well did spend some years in University as well, plus tool box talks and IET lectures to keep up to date.

The young have speed, but it is tortoise and hare, the old guys experience allows him to equal the young man's speed. But when you start late in life it is hard, you have neither speed or experience, there are one or two ways to gain this, and I volunteer for my local steam railway, where I pass on my knowledge to others, be it the National boat museum, or Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railway, your not required to work fast, slow and steady is all they can expect from people my age, and you are taught new skills, also you can arrange to work when you have spare time, I also want to learn new skills, from 6 year old I wanted to be an engine driver, don't think I will become one of them now, need to be fireman/woman first before you can start training as an engine driver, and shovelling coal at my time of life is not really a good idea.

You don't say where you live? When I lived in Shotton North Wales the local collage was 1.5 miles down the road, could go on my push bike, here I would need to travel at least 50 miles a day maybe more, so location does matter, I have to travel 0.5 miles to steam railway when in Shotton I would need to travel 50 miles to work with steam railways, but there are other venues like boat museum. Although can't see them using too many electricians. But surprised how many buildings my local railways has, and how many machines, so you never know until you ask.

 

[securespark]

I have never stopped leaning, and never pretended that I know it all.

This is my thinking.
When I wrapped up my business and started maintenance work, I very quickly came across some situations I had never seen before in all those years.
Every day is a school day.

 

[ericmark]

Down load the free forms from the IET website, and look at what needs filling in. It will ask for earth loop impedance, RCD tripping times, seem to also remember insulation resistance etc. And you will need a meter to measure them to do nothing more than fill in the form, to me the form is a check list so I don't miss anything.

I would allow around £750 for test gear, of course having the gear does not mean you can use it safely, but you clearly can't use it if you have not got it.

I watched an electrician at my dad's house trying to fit a consumer unit without proper test gear, he was really pulling his hair out, this was before 2008 so he was able to leave the house without RCD protection on some circuits, today you have not got that option, I also don't have all the tools, my clamp-on ammeter will only go down to 100 mA bought it in Hong Kong before I left for around £30 ($350 HK) but to get one to measure DC and down to 1 mA this one at £93.42 is likely one of the cheaper models you can buy.

When I misplaced my megga I got a cheap one for £35 however it does not measure low ohms, and it is not calibrated, OK for DIY not OK for commercial where you need to enter the meter serial number on the test sheet.

My son has said to me, why don't I start doing EICR's no repairs just the report, I have the test gear and qualifications, only need the insurance, however it's all well and good in theory, but in practice if I find a C1 it has to be corrected or lock off power, and a C2 the owner has only 28 days, so who would want an electrician who will not correct faults? In practice it's all or nothing.

The same applies to other electrical work, 90% in England may not need a compliance certificate, a minor works is good enough, so for 90% you don't need scheme membership, and in theory the odd one you pay LABC their fee, and get a completion certificate instead. But in the real world it does not work, the job expands, you did not on starting think it would need a compliance certificate but faults found while doing the job have changed that, and it would cost a lot of money paying the LABC so in real terms you need to be a scheme member.

So as to qualifications you need to ask the scheme providers, what is the minimum they will accept. And what will that allow you to do, I seem to remember Corgi was a scheme provider, but they only authorised a limited amount of work its members could do.

As said I did 5 years, my dad did 7 years or at least should have done, WWII reduced that for him, what he should have done was 5 years in one firm then 4 lots of 6 months in other firms called the journeyman, plus night class. The reason mine could be reduced is because I did day release as well as night classes so more taught in collage. Today they have block release so even more taught in collage, however since finishing my apprenticeship I have returned to collage many times, well did spend some years in University as well, plus tool box talks and IET lectures to keep up to date.

The young have speed, but it is tortoise and hare, the old guys experience allows him to equal the young man's speed. But when you start late in life it is hard, you have neither speed or experience, there are one or two ways to gain this, and I volunteer for my local steam railway, where I pass on my knowledge to others, be it the National boat museum, or Welshpool & Llanfair Light Railway, your not required to work fast, slow and steady is all they can expect from people my age, and you are taught new skills, also you can arrange to work when you have spare time, I also want to learn new skills, from 6 year old I wanted to be an engine driver, don't think I will become one of them now, need to be fireman/woman first before you can start training as an engine driver, and shovelling coal at my time of life is not really a good idea.

You don't say where you live? When I lived in Shotton North Wales the local collage was 1.5 miles down the road, could go on my push bike, here I would need to travel at least 50 miles a day maybe more, so location does matter, I have to travel 0.5 miles to steam railway when in Shotton I would need to travel 50 miles to work with steam railways, but there are other venues like boat museum. Although can't see them using too many electricians. But surprised how many buildings my local railways has, and how many machines, so you never know until you ask.

 

[danechip]

If changing a consumer unit by the book, then looking at £500 plus for test equipment, also problem getting it officially isolated. I did look at changing one by resigistoring it with local building control, and even as a time served electrician simply not worth the hassle.

Of course you can break all the rules, but a collage will not show you how to do it wrong, at least I hope not.

I had to look up that spelling as I was questioning it myself...

 

[ericmark]

It depends if using PC or Tablet, with PC it underlines what it thinks is incorrect in red, and allows me to change it if I think it is wrong, but the Tablet just changes it, and I have to watch to see it has not made errors, I am dyslexic, and do feel some was having a laugh when they made that word, what a word for some one dyslexic to spell, in the main I see a word is wrong even when I can't work out what is wrong, but of late google Nest Mini has been used to assist spelling, but missed that one.

I looked as charges and £100 plus vat was minimum charge to register under Part P, and it seems the LABC can employ an contractor to do the inspection, and the rules were changed so now that is on top of the council charge, so we are looking just shy of £200 to do it through the LABC, which is about a days wages, so may as well pay a scheme member electrician a days wages to paying the LABC, it is simply not worth doing.

However I made an error, I bought a CU and all the RCBO's I required, which were clearly marked type B on the packets, but after installed found they were curve B type AC, so I have needed to order up two RCBO's type A for the kitchen and utility room ring final as using inverter fridge/freezer, freezer, and washing machine, and induction cooker, not so worried about the latter as nothing is likely to be plugged in so in real terms don't really need RCD protection to same extent.

However I would have thought the guy fitting them would have noticed and said something, but BS 7671 still allows their use, and so breaking no rules, and to be frank not sure how much of a problem it really is?

However it does raise a point, changing a consumer unit does require some risk assessment, it is not a case of walking into a electrical whole sale outlet and saying I want a 14 outlet consumer unit. The 18 module consumer unit I used had I used RCD's would have needed to be an extra 4 modules wide, or stacked, so size does matter, and one has to consider what the inductance and capacitive linking will cause as a drain to earth, it is all well and good saying 9 mA is the limit, but can you measure that before changing the unit? With an old fuse box you may be able to measure the total, but if each circuit was 1 mA which is the minimum most clamp-on meters will measure, with 14 circuits it is still guess work as to if the grouping will cause one group to exceed the minimum and cause nuisance tripping.

So in real terms it is experience, one looks at the house as says to ones self it is only small two circuits will do, or a house of that size will need more that 2 RCD's, so I looked at the house and realised the old garage turning into a flat would need two RCD's and the main house since ring final split side to side and lights split up/down would need at least 3 RCD's to ensure lights would not be affected in same room as socket fault, so would need 5 RCD's only way would be two consumer units, unless using RCBO's, and if using all RCBO's it is 10 module shorter as 5 RCD's width less.

OK with mine in many ways cut and dried three story house is not going to work well with just two RCD's but this is where the skill comes in, the electrician has to balance cost and use and advise the owner as what is acceptable. Even down to knowing when some thing has tripped, and I have considered many times freezer on it's own RCBO may mean unlikely to trip, but also means unlikely to notice if it does trip.

It is not as easy as right and wrong, it is 50 shades of grey in between.

 

[delmel]

I learned how to replace consumer units on a four year apprenticeship.

I bet you learned more in a week on site than a year in colledge, when I was on the course the first year the only person who failed was the one person who was working with an established contractor and he was more than capable, the problem with colledge it that some teachers often have never even visited a site, but they can read all the books and info and supp it all in. One tutour who was a site foreman for a large electrical contractor got a *******ing from the one who had never had a day on site. I think you can imagine what he told him.

 

[RF Lighting]

Maybe I was lucky but I think I had quite a good college experience. One of my classroom lecturers and my workshop tutor were both former electricians and had the real world experience to better explain what they were teaching And could answer questions that we threw at them about things we’d done and seen on site.

I fairly recently went back to college to do the 18th edition update course and our teacher was a teacher only. She had never actually worked in the trade and whilst she knew her way around the regs extremely well, she struggled to answer any questions when people were asking about real world situations and how to make sure they were compliant with the regulations.

 

[bernardgreen]

update course and our teacher was a teacher only. She had never actually worked in the trade

Same in other trades.......the old tradesman's saying ""Those who can... they do, those who can't... they teach""

 

[JohnW2]

Same in other trades.......the old tradesman's saying ""Those who can... they do, those who can't... they teach""

Often very true.

Mind you, I was brought up within a culture (presumably no longer very acceptable!) which was more-or-less "watch one, do one, teach one", which is far from ideal - the concept is good enough, but the "one"s are rather worrying"

Most of my primary professional education was in disciplines in which, unusually, there were not really any people who were anything approaching full-time teachers/academics (other than in a few 'support' sub-subjects). Instead, we were taught by people who were practising professionals whose 'duties' included some teaching. However, that was not without its problems - since there were some who were brilliant and knowledgeable in terms of 'practising', but totally useless at (maybe 'not interested in') teaching/communication. I presume that similar applies to 'trades' - that some people who are highly competent and knowledgeable in terms of practising their trade make very bad 'teachers'?

Kind Regards, John