Where do I start?? CH system & DHW...

[PeedOftec]

Ok, I'm a newbie to all this but in desperation have joined you guys for advice.

My tale of woe started last November last year for a "3 week install" so I was told. Still not sorted yet!! I'm rapidly losing faith with the company doing it all..

Question to all you guys out there... where do I start when sizing rads, oil boiler, "thermal store", cold tanks, pipes etc etc.?

Guess there are questions to be answered such as property construction, lifetsyle of occupants and geographic location among others?

Is there anywhere you recommend? Website?, unbiased company?, books?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

Regards

S.

 

[kevindgas]

start with the basics

what size house (approx) beds, semi or terrace etc.
what system would you like combi or heat only/cylinder
any particular boiler manufacturer or happy to guided
ball park spend?

with these we can possibly start to help you

remember we all try to help but do have to work as well so it may take a while to get everything you need to know

kev

 

[PeedOftec]

start with the basics

what size house (approx) beds, semi or terrace etc.
what system would you like combi or heat only/cylinder
any particular boiler manufacturer or happy to guided
ball park spend?

with these we can possibly start to help you

remember we all try to help but do have to work as well so it may take a while to get everything you need to know

kev

Internal floor area 177m sq Volume 442 m cu.
External size 24m x 8.7 m.
4 double beds, wetroom, study, kitchen, lounge, utility, hallway.
Detached bungalow built in 1965, brick 65 cavity brick. Now blow filled. Cold roofspace, Moderately exposed location. Double glazed.

Now have a multifuel wood burning stove (20kw) hooked up to a oil boiler and a "multi heat source" hot water tank. Plumber has gone worcester.

My problem is the plumber has circulation going the wrong way through certain pipes and we cannot get a reasonable amount of hot water from the wood stove despite it's size. I think his idea of an "injector tee" is a straight forward tee piece!!

Ball park spend.... we are paying top wack from the quotes we got in last October... but as it is not finished there is still an outstanding sum...

 

[doitall]

Need a drawing or something to see how it's connected.

 

[PeedOftec]

There are, or will be, 3 toilets, 2 x sinks, 4 washbasins, 1 powershower, 1 normal shower bath and washing machine. There are 4/5 occupants and are all out through the day so it is a mad rush in the morning and busy in the evening when the hot water requirement is high.(baths/showers/washing up etc)

My "grand plan" was to crank the wood stove up during the evening, create lots of hot water and heat the house then the following morning when the stove was out utilise all the stored water without the need to resort to the oil boiler or imersion heater. (Solar planned in the near future too)

I think my (the plumbers!) issues are 1) the wood stove is plumbed in incorrectly so we don't get the amount of hot water expected and 2) the "thermal store" is way too small. (plus he has plumbed the stove into the coil designed for hooking up to solar panels so screws us up on the solar project!!)

Problems, problems.....

 

[PeedOftec]

Can I post pictures on here???? will have a browse about....

 

[gas4you]

I assume that your thermal store has 3 lots of connections then, oil boiler, stove and solar?

Is it definately a thermal store, or a hot water cylinder?

 

[PeedOftec]

The tank is an ACV SLME300

http://www.acv-uk.com/slme.htm

 

[PeedOftec]

The SLME has a separate coil for the solar and the other connections on the outside are all common to the external water jacket that heats the inner tanks "sanitary" water. Although I don't think my plumber realises that!!!

 

[gas4you]

From that the cylinder has only 2 sets of connections, so I would say it is not asuitable cylinder for a 3 way set up of boiler, stove and solar.

The boiler and stove would have to be plumbed into the same connections via what is called, I think, a neutraliser.

 

[PeedOftec]

//www.diynot.com/network/PeedOftec/albums/

Ok, I have posted an image into my album. Not sure if this is the correct way to do it but only way I know at the moment...

Cheers for the comments to dates guys, impressed by the quick responses!!

 

[PeedOftec]

....

The boiler and stove would have to be plumbed into the same connections via what is called, I think, a neutraliser.

Yes, a Dunsley neutraliser... they do two or three types, the round one that sits under a normal DHW tank...

Looked into that one too but plumber came up with the ACV tank???? I could only accept he knew what he was doing at the time...

Technical at ACV say their tanks should do the job (although they say it should have been a 600 and not a 300!!) if it was plumbed in correctly.

In order to keep the system as simple as possible, and to cater for power outage, the wood stove was to circulate using thermosyphoning (hot water rising etc) gravity circulation, ie not to rely on pumps. Thats fine but in this case there is only about a 50mm rise!! plus umpteen 90 deg bends for the hot water to negotiate! Dooh!!

 

[gas4you]

Firstly, I must say I am not conversant with this cylinder, but as it appears to be based on a thermal store, the radiators should be connected to the heating circuit outlets on the cylinder (5 & 6), the boiler/stove flow and returns to the post heating connections (1 & 2), whilst the solar connections are 3 & 4. Hence my belief that the boiler and stove need to be plumbed together before the cylinder as my previous post.

IF I am correct, I feel your plumber hasn't got a clue how to install it. IF however I am wrong, then please accept my apologies.

I sure one of the others will be along soon to cast their, hopefully, more knowledgable opinion on it.

 

[PeedOftec]

Firstly, I must say I am not conversant with this cylinder, but as it appears to be based on a thermal store, the radiators should be connected to the heating circuit outlets on the cylinder (5 & 6), the boiler/stove flow and returns to the post heating connections (1 & 2), whilst the solar connections are 3 & 4. Hence my belief that the boiler and stove need to be plumbed together before the cylinder as my previous post.

IF I am correct, I feel your plumber hasn't got a clue how to install it. IF however I am wrong, then please accept my apologies.

I sure one of the others will be along soon to cast their, hopefully, more knowledgable opinion on it.

Cheers Dave, yes, the alarm bells should have started to ring when he connected a pump in the wrong way round!, and I had to rewire the high and low stats from the stove as they were wired wrongly, oh and plus the "flapper air valve" on the back of the wodstove opened MORE the hotter the stove got... plus the condensate from the oil boiler was left to dribble down the external brickwork before I looked up the building regs and made my own soakaway that exceeded the regs, and no, he says the thermal store doesn't need an earth lead (despite the manufacturers saying it does!) They are just quote "covering their arses"... The list goes on.....

I think you have it right Dave.....

 

[PeedOftec]

Ok, just been crawing about in the loft, there is 5150mm from FFL to apex in loft. (Bungalow). The cold tanks base is about 4520 above FFL (finished floor Level)

In that space there has to be accomodated a woodstove, a hot water tank, heat leak rad and cold feed/expansion tanks.... in that order....

Any advice on min and max spacing between the relative components?

Another point... there is max horizontal separation of about 4300mm between woodstove and expansion tank. (open vent.)

Cheers

S.