Which is the one question to ask?
- Thread starter diyblonde
- Start date
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Most of the questions are pretty basic that any competent installer should know (closed book). A few are more demanding and will sort out the real pro's. What particular questions are you having trouble with Chris
Unfortunately being CORGI registered means jack **** as plainly evident from the postings on here.
Just run through the questions and you'll soon get an idea of their competence.
Come off it, GG. How many plumbers do you imagine know off the top of their heads what NPSH stands for, or what Maguire's Rule is, or what a type CA backflow device is, or what a hydraulic gradient is? When did you last hear a 2 pipe heating system referred to as reverse return?
Some of your own answers don't do you any favours either. Saying etc. etc. isn't much of an answer to anything. And since when can't hemp be used on screwed threads on a heating system? And 1mm/m isn't a rate of expansion at all since it doesn't specify the temperature rise. And what sort of air bubbles are there other than self-contained ones? And an 8 mbar permissible drop doesn't mean anything if you don't specify over 2 minutes.
There's more, but I think that's enough embarrassment for you for one night. Perhaps you should spend the rest of it thinking about changing your name.
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I would like to think most regulars on here have certainly heard if not understand the terms used. They are all commonly used in plumbing/heating literature.
Just because you are not aware of the terms don't assume every other installer is like minded. You're trying to pick holes without offering any useful input. You showed your own mis-givings with your gas pipe sizing ramblings recently (and had no support from any opther regulars).
It is obvious to anyone that the answers are not going to go into precise details given they are intended for the OP and this is a forum. eg 1mm/m is a good approximation for a 70 or 80 centigrade temperature change (and must be allowed for), it is accepted the TT drop is over 2 minutes, and for your reference a 2 pipe -reverse return layout is not the same as a plain 2 pipe system, a bubble in the bottom of a saucepan will rise to the surface...a bubble trapped in an upturned glass is contained...is this concept too difficult for you Chris?, PTFE is normally used for screwed fittings as well you know.
The questions are to provide a starting point to assess the competence of an installer and have clearly prooved a point here.
Just because you are not aware of the terms don't assume every other installer is like minded. You're trying to pick holes without offering any useful input. You showed your own mis-givings with your gas pipe sizing ramblings recently (and had no support from any opther regulars).
It is obvious to anyone that the answers are not going to go into precise details given they are intended for the OP and this is a forum. eg 1mm/m is a good approximation for a 70 or 80 centigrade temperature change (and must be allowed for), it is accepted the TT drop is over 2 minutes, and for your reference a 2 pipe -reverse return layout is not the same as a plain 2 pipe system, a bubble in the bottom of a saucepan will rise to the surface...a bubble trapped in an upturned glass is contained...is this concept too difficult for you Chris?, PTFE is normally used for screwed fittings as well you know.
The questions are to provide a starting point to assess the competence of an installer and have clearly prooved a point here.
Sussex/Essex/ Warix flanges are to prevent air entrainment, not cavitation.
Can be used on sealed circulation systems, LTHW, CHW; verboten on plumbing.
Only if the heat emitters have similar duties. How did I learn this lesson?
Ultrasonic?
DIYBlonde is, I suspect, a confused CC bloke trying to get answers to his coursework.
You referred to self-contained bubbles, now your changing it to just contained. And your now trying to wriggle out of your ill informed answer on restrictions on the use of hemp.... a bubble in the bottom of a saucepan will rise to the surface...a bubble trapped in an upturned glass is contained...is this concept too difficult for you Chris?, PTFE is normally used for screwed fittings as well you know.
I believe Hoist by your own petard is the appropriate comment.
Now Now Boys
you are both big and clever
Sheesh I had forgotten all about maguires law
that takes me back.
See OP there is no ONE question you can ask
just use chaps/chappesses that have come with some recommendations and you will be fine
the rogue trader is, thankfully, becoming a rare thing IMHO
you are both big and clever
Sheesh I had forgotten all about maguires law
that takes me back.
See OP there is no ONE question you can ask
just use chaps/chappesses that have come with some recommendations and you will be fine
the rogue trader is, thankfully, becoming a rare thing IMHO
FFS you lot really are proving the point.
So your saying air entrained water has no effect on NPSH and cavitation then?
The question was to distinguish that hemp is prohibited on potable water, and in reality hemp is not normally used on domestic heating systems either since the introduction of PTFE (being easier and cleaner and of better appearance) except for some gas fittings.
I said balancing is SIMPLIFIED not eliminated...big difference, the questions are to test the knowledge of the installer something you seem unable to comprehend.
You don't appear to be able to distinguish between a positive displacement (diaphragm) meter and the electronic (ultrasonic) type meter...surely you've come across E6 meters?
Perhaps instead of offering pathetic criticism and showing your distinct lack of knowledge you would care to offer the OP constructive advice rather than perpetuating the stereotypical plumber/heating installer.
So your saying air entrained water has no effect on NPSH and cavitation then?
The question was to distinguish that hemp is prohibited on potable water, and in reality hemp is not normally used on domestic heating systems either since the introduction of PTFE (being easier and cleaner and of better appearance) except for some gas fittings.
I said balancing is SIMPLIFIED not eliminated...big difference, the questions are to test the knowledge of the installer something you seem unable to comprehend.
You don't appear to be able to distinguish between a positive displacement (diaphragm) meter and the electronic (ultrasonic) type meter...surely you've come across E6 meters?
Perhaps instead of offering pathetic criticism and showing your distinct lack of knowledge you would care to offer the OP constructive advice rather than perpetuating the stereotypical plumber/heating installer.
Really? Try doing a search of this amazing DIYnot database and see how rarely those terms are used.
For example the only person who has ever referred to ultrasonic meters is you, Gasguru. Everybody else just refers to E6 meters.
NPSH has only been referred to twice in all DIYnot posts and hydraulic gradient has only one reference.
As for Maguire's rule and type CA backflow devices , there is not a single reference to either of these terms in the whole DIYnot database.
Really? I thought your question specifically mentioned heating -
Well if any heating installers don't realise the E6 meter uses ultrasonic sound as the basis for measuring gas flow despite references to this in several common publications then it's down to their own inadequacies.
I therefore sincerely apologise for assuming you were all much brighter than you actually are.
How about a new list of questions for the dumb-downed installer....just a few to start you off:
Do you carry out your TT with a lit match. No
Can you use garden hose pipes for gas. No
Do you need to connect a flue to the boiler. Yes
etc, etc
I therefore sincerely apologise for assuming you were all much brighter than you actually are.
How about a new list of questions for the dumb-downed installer....just a few to start you off:
Do you carry out your TT with a lit match. No
Can you use garden hose pipes for gas. No
Do you need to connect a flue to the boiler. Yes
etc, etc
N
namsag
1. TT is done with safety matches only because swan vesta`s can cause explosions
2. Garden hose pipes can only be used with the correct size jubilee clips far better to used bicycle inside tubing as the rubber is tighter and leaks less
3Everyone knows you don`t connect the flue as the boiler gives off far more heat without it..
2. Garden hose pipes can only be used with the correct size jubilee clips far better to used bicycle inside tubing as the rubber is tighter and leaks less
3Everyone knows you don`t connect the flue as the boiler gives off far more heat without it..
The OP asked
Then went on :-
Gasguru said
Then listed 19 mostly irrelevant questions to which those who could answer all of them correctly are probably too busy reading books to have the practical experience to do a good job.
The government have issued a Central heating system specification booklet a.k.a. CHeSS [CE30] This is the booklet which any decent instaler should have come across when they did their energy efficiency qualification. This document I would say is most relevant to the work which you want carried out.
The question to ask I would say is:- How will the system that you propose to fit comply with the Basic and/or Best CHeSS requirements?
An answer that shows most familiarity with the Best and Basic requirements on page 20 and 21 of that document should point you towards the best man for the job.
Now there's knowing your stuff and doing your stuff so I would also ask if you could contact the owner of a system they fitted previously to see if they were happy with the installation.
Then went on :-
Perhaps there are two or three questions to ask with varying degrees of complexity that will sort "the men from the boys"?
So can someone please tell me what those questions are!!!!!!
Gasguru said
Then listed 19 mostly irrelevant questions to which those who could answer all of them correctly are probably too busy reading books to have the practical experience to do a good job.
The government have issued a Central heating system specification booklet a.k.a. CHeSS [CE30] This is the booklet which any decent instaler should have come across when they did their energy efficiency qualification. This document I would say is most relevant to the work which you want carried out.
The question to ask I would say is:- How will the system that you propose to fit comply with the Basic and/or Best CHeSS requirements?
An answer that shows most familiarity with the Best and Basic requirements on page 20 and 21 of that document should point you towards the best man for the job.
Now there's knowing your stuff and doing your stuff so I would also ask if you could contact the owner of a system they fitted previously to see if they were happy with the installation.
Thanks GG, Slug and all the other guys really appreciate the advice. Have downloaded the CE30 I'm going to do some research and then choose a couple of questions I can get a handle on. I've learnt a lot and still only scratched the surface. My only regret is that I didn't do this before the plumber came to massacre my bathroom! B*gg*r !
I will in future ALWAYS ask to speak with a previous customer, I didn't want to before because I was worried it may be rude. Joyfully too I may have found someone for the central heating - as you suggested I asked a neighbour - so it may all be coming together. But I'm still going to do that research anyway!
I will in future ALWAYS ask to speak with a previous customer, I didn't want to before because I was worried it may be rude. Joyfully too I may have found someone for the central heating - as you suggested I asked a neighbour - so it may all be coming together. But I'm still going to do that research anyway!
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