Why can't I certify my domestic electrical work?

[Gees]

"If he can understand and meet the requirements of BS 7671 and inspect, test and certify that this is the case then, yes. "

I think that's accurate... however...

I rewired a kitchen a couple of years ago and notified Building Control. They sent a bloke out to inspect it who said that I was clearly competent to test the installation and fill out the BS 7671. There was then a long argument about who should do the testing, since I don't own the gear to test insulation resistance, or test RCD trip times. Basically said it was my problem, despite the Part P regs saying it was BC's responsibility to perform these tests.

It's jobsworth fools like this who will put people off from following the proper procedures.

Who ended up doing the testing ?? And was it OK ?

 

[SgtTrojan]

Did you have to pay building control?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Gareth. Can you clarify for me.
Do you mean CERTIFY (ie that the installation complies with BS7671)

or

NOTIFY - the legal requirement for most major electrical works that the work done complies with Building Regulations.

There's a difference.

 

[ericmark]

Part P regs saying it was BC's responsibility to perform these tests.

Not quite it says where the installers are qualified to carry out inspection and testing and completing the appropriate BS7671 installation certificate, they should do so. (1.22)

1.23 c. Where installers are not qualified.

Then it is up to building control to decide (1.25) and if they do then they pay for tests.

However where a non qualified person wants to do electrical work they (LABC) must of course have the ability to say no. Otherwise how could they become responsible for making sure the work is safe. (1.24)

They do not have magic wands and there must be people who have no idea what they are doing and the only way they could safely do the work would be for the LABC guy to watch and instruct them in every step which of course they can't do.

Also any inspection and testing they do will not be passed to the DIY person so although he would have a completion certificate he would not have a Minor Works or an Installation Certificate.

What the document says is if the LABC does not believe your results and does there own they can't charge you.

1.27 states quite clearly that LABC will not issue an installation inspection and test certificate.

How the LABC can prove if anything went wrong that they fulfilled their responsibility ensure the work is safe and compiles with all relevant requirements in the Building Regulations (1.24) without inspecting and testing I don't know.

In the same way as I know of no court case where some one has not claimed to be a member of a scheme and has completed work which complies with BS7671 neither do I know of any case where the LABC has been taken to court for not for-filling their duties under Part P.

They have been taken to court for Baby P. And people have been taken to court for substandard work and for claiming to be a member of a scheme when they were not.

And really speaking unless LABC can be prosecuted for not doing their duty then the whole idea of Part P must be nothing more than a tax for improving ones own home.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Then it is up to building control to decide (1.25) and if they do then they pay for tests.

Not any more. See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/uksi_20100404_en_1 - particularly 7(3):

Where the local authority consider it necessary to engage and incur the costs of a consultant to provide specialist advice or services in relation to a particular aspect of building work those costs shall also be included in the determination referred to in paragraph (1).

As of April 1st they must charge people if they subcontract I&T to an outside electrician.

 

[Gees]

Then it is up to building control to decide (1.25) and if they do then they pay for tests.

Not any more. See http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2010/uksi_20100404_en_1 - particularly 7(3):

Where the local authority consider it necessary to engage and incur the costs of a consultant to provide specialist advice or services in relation to a particular aspect of building work those costs shall also be included in the determination referred to in paragraph (1).

As of April 1st they must charge people if they subcontract I&T to an outside electrician.

Does this mean that LABC tax collectors can collect even MORE tax now?
Do then then charge the consumer After completion or before ??
Surely this will lead to even more un-notified work !!

 

[echoes]

Did you have to pay building control?

Yes - they took payment before coming round.

They tested it eventually after many excuses. Not a happy experience though. It was all OK.

Wondering whether to invest in some test gear for next time so I can fill in the BS 7671 form without relying on their testers, but it's clearly their responsibilty and then I have to make sure it's calibrated etc etc... and I would still have pay for the BC inspections.

<rant>
I've seen apalling and dangerous electrical work left by so-called competent professionals and certified as safe (notably kitchen fitters), and now they erect barriers and bureacracy to prevent a more competent person (me) from making my wiring safer. But it seems that 2 degrees in electrical engineering and a thorough understanding of the wiring regs, and the REASONS why the regs are as they are is no substitute for a bit of bog paper obtained after some sort of Part P course.

Well intentioned legisalation with unintended consequences - what a surprise.
</rant>

 

[echoes]

Having re-read the part P document, it's clear that the installer must complete the BS7671 certificate, but testing may be contracted by LABC.
Does this mean that the installer should complete the most technical parts of the certificate after LABC testing (if they choose to do so) using LABC's test results, or what? Or does it depend on how much testing they ask for?
Or should I have just got a PIR by an electrician on completion and used the data from that to complete my BS7671, putting my signature to those tests?

The problem I had was that I was up front with BC about what I tests I could do, but he didn't give a proper indication of the extent of testing they required, nor whether it would all have ben covered by a Minor Works cert or the full cert.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Having re-read the part P document, it's clear that the installer must complete the BS7671 certificate

c. Where installers are not qualified to
complete BS 7671 completion certificates



(You'll find it just over half-way down the RH column on p 11)

 

[echoes]

c. Where installers are not qualified to
complete BS 7671 completion certificates

Precisely! My argument to the LABC was that I was NOT qualified to complete the certificate and I had insufficient test gear to do so, and the work was done as a DIY job. But he said that I was qualified. I pointed out exactly sections (b) & (c) and section 1.26 but he said "that's not how the regulations have been interpreted." He just couldn't be bothered organising a test at the LABC's expense.
Hence my frustration.