Why has DIYNOT got a electrics forum?

[ban-all-sheds]

You're trying to twist the wording of what you wrote to stop yourself looking like an idiot, and it's not working.

I am so tempted to say "It's working, Jim, but not as you want it".....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Slippy..I apologise..I was about to have a pop but thought I would re-read my other posts first...I see what you mean..I posted a message which certainly gave that impression and the statement is totally incorrect..bad checking by me.....

Had I gone back and checked earlier I think we would have not have got to a confused position with us both saying the same thing but confused by my bad post...

Please accept my apologies for that..I think you can see we actually agree, I understand why you seemed to be arguing against what I said...

Please note that although this precedes my long reply above, I'd already started that before this, and hadn't seen it...

 

[Big_Spark]

BAS..whatever fella, as usual your the one wriggling here not I.

I have accpeted that a post I made earlier was so badly worded that it CAUSED the confusion and I missed that mistake, consequently we, Oil, Slippery and I) were argueing at crossed purposes, all meaning the same thing but not realising that..due to my crappy post..

IT is not not wriggling you fool, it is accepting that i made a shiite post that was incorrect..I should not have made that post as I should have read it through as a preview BEFORE I posted it, I would then have realised my error and this confusion would never have occured.

Now you, as usual, added feck all to this discussion, you simply started mouthing off in your usual no brainer way..
Some of your posts have been helpful to others, but in the last 6 months or so all you seem to do is be difficult and attack people. If you have nothing constructive or helpful to say..as others have said, why don't you simply shut the hell up and run away, as you did at ATT when I shut you up there .


I await your diatribe...oops sorry I mean responce

 

[oilman]

It is often not realised by many that the shock hazard of the neutral conductor is far higher than that of the phase conductor.

I've just realised that you were right all along - that indeed is not realised by many...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oil..I am big enough to apologise when I make a mistake...perhaps others in this thread might like too as well...

Apologising for making a mistake is not necessarily required - we all make mistakes, and a simple "yes you're right" when the mistake is pointed out does not require you to be (or make you) "big".

But maybe instead of apologising for making a mistake you should consider whether you should try and break out of this cycle:

You post something that's wrong.

People tell you that it's wrong.

You insist that it's right and repeat it.

People repeat their insistence that you are wrong, often with evidence and worked examples.

You start shouting, calling people stupid, obtuse, insulting, liars, feckers, annoyances* ...

The criticism of what you've posted continues (surprise, surprise )

Eventually the truth dawns, and we end up at the position that we would have been if at stage 2 you'd stopped to think instead of assuming that you know so much and everyone else knows so little and that you can't possibly be wrong.

* Actually that one I will allow - I'm sure you do find it annoying when people won't give up.

If you want to apologise for something, you can apologise for calling me a liar.

 

[Big_Spark]

I cannot be ass ed to quote my own posts here..

Simply to cl;arify as I get the impression there is misinterpretation taking place.

My comment regarding the shock hazard of the neutral is valid. It does not say the actual shock will be greater, it simply says the hazard is greater..WHY? Well 99% of the Joe soaps in the street do not believe it possible to recieve a shock from the neutral conductor, as a consequence they would take less care with a neutral than they would a phase conductor, which they may expect to be live.

This is complicated due to the insane practice of sharing neutrals between circuits, a practice frowned upon by professionals and any sane DIYer. If you isolate the phase conductor of a circuit, unless you have a double pole isolator (which MCB's are not) it is still possible to recieve a shock from the Neutral, if there is any sharing between circuits.

For these reasons the shock hazard is greater, but not necessarilly the recieved shock...

I hope that claifies that comment...

 

[Big_Spark]

[
If you want to apologise for something, you can apologise for calling me a liar.

I could not possibly apologise for telling the truth.

You are a liar BAS....you posted something you KNEW to be wrong..that is a liar. Posting something that turns out to be wrong, if posted in innocense is not a lie, it is simply being wrong.

I posted rubbish but missed my mistake. That requires an apology as it created confusion that led to this discussion going on longer that it needed too. You entered the discussion with insults as your post and you also knew it to be inaccurate..that makes you a liar by dictionary definitions.

 

[oilman]

.......and here we go again..............

Big-spark, I used to think you had something useful and factual to say, but now it seems you play the part of humpty-dumpty, and anything you say means just what you mean it to say, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS..whatever fella, as usual your the one wriggling here not I.

I have accpeted that a post I made earlier was so badly worded that it CAUSED the confusion and I missed that mistake, consequently we, Oil, Slippery and I) were argueing at crossed purposes, all meaning the same thing but not realising that..due to my rubbishy post..

IT is not not wriggling you fool, it is accepting that i made a s**** post that was incorrect..I should not have made that post as I should have read it through as a preview BEFORE I posted it, I would then have realised my error and this confusion would never have occured.

The wriggling was what you were doing before you accepted that you'd made a s**** post.

Now you, as usual, added f**k all to this discussion, you simply started mouthing off in your usual no brainer way..

There you go again - trying to denigrate someone on a personal level because you don't like them disagreeing with you. You say I've added f**k all to this discussion, but I said the same things as slippyr4 and oilman...

Some of your posts have been helpful to others, but in the last 6 months or so all you seem to do is be difficult and attack people.

If by "all you seem to do is be difficult and attack people" you mean "you refuse to give up telling people they are wrong when they are wrong and you are right, no matter how much they bluster" then yes, guilty as charged.

If you have nothing constructive or helpful to say..as others have said, why don't you simply shut the hell up and run away, as you did at ATT when I shut you up there .

In your dreams you shut me up there, or could ever shut me up anywhere. I never have, and never will, argue with you for the sake of it, but if you post things which I believe are wrong, I will say so, and I will never stop, no matter how abusive you become.

And I did not "run away" from ATT - I left because I disagreed on a fundamental level with the attitude of the owner to giving DIY electrical advice. When I persisted in saying that advice should be given, his response was to say "why don't you just **** off". So I did.

 

[Big_Spark]

.......and here we go again..............

Big-spark, I used to think you had something useful and factual to say, but now it seems you play the part of humpty-dumpty, and anything you say means just what you mean it to say, nothing more, nothing less.

Whatever Oil...BAS and I will never get along..he is an anoyance on the face of humanity as far as I am concerned, a proven hypocrite, liar and generally a twonk...It would simply be best if we did not rise to each other..but sometimes common sense gets the better of both os us and we go for it..not very mature I agree...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I could not possibly apologise for telling the truth.

You are a liar BAS....you posted something you KNEW to be wrong..that is a liar.

Care to enlighten us? What did I post that I knew to be wrong?

You entered the discussion with insults as your post

Did I?

Whom did I insult, and how? Please show us where this was.

and you also knew it to be inaccurate..that makes you a liar by dictionary definitions.

Again - where have I lied? What did I say that I knew to be untrue?

 

[Big_Spark]

DIY and electricity..the two simply do not mix.

Yes they do, approached sensibly there is no more danger than other areas of DIY such as using a ladder or changing your own brake pads etc.

Keyplayer you are wasting your time. Big_Spark is not interested in reason, logic and facts on this issue.

His position is partly influenced by financial self-interest, and partly by the huge chip he has on his shoulder about the lowly (as he sees it) status of electricians.

Note that the only example of a serious problem he's ever encountered is 20 years old.

In that time, I wonder how many fatal car crash scenes he has driven past? In that time, approximately 70,000 people will have died on the roads.

I rest my case.....regarding stating with insults....

No - sadly it's another example of Big_Spark coming on here and spouting complete b*llsh*t, trying to back it up with a number of big "I am" statements, and then melting away when pressed to prove it.

A situation which I'm sure is all too familiar.

And here is the lies.....

I will not bring others into this discussion, but BAS, I would appear to still be here, not melting away....as you claim..knowing it to be untrue, therefore a lie.

Oh regarding ATT..I was away fro a few days following our "discussion" on there, when I returned you had left and I was told by someone else that it was due to our "discussion". If this was not the case then I was led up the garden path...or they simply had their facts wrong in other words...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Whatever Oil...BAS and I will never get along..he is an anoyance on the face of humanity as far as I am concerned,

I don't doubt you find me annoying. When you say things that are wrong I keep on telling you you are wrong. It's bound to annoy you. I can give you two categorical assurances:

1) I do not do it to annoy you

2) I will not stop just because it annoys you.

a proven hypocrite, liar

So far you've not advanced any proof of that, you just keep on saying it.

Maybe it's like some of your dodgy technical pronouncements - you think that if you keep on saying the same thing then people will eventually believe you.

and generally a twonk

But at least I can argue, and disagree with what you say, without resorting to personal insults, eh?

...It would simply be best if we did not rise to each other

I'm not "rising" to you, just telling you that you're wrong, when you are, and not letting go.

..but sometimes common sense gets the better of both os us

I wish your common sense would get the better of you more often...

and we go for it..not very mature I agree...

One of us has conducted this discussion in a calm, rational and logical way.

And one of us has been unable to continue without calling the other a liar, a hypocrite, a twonk.

Who is not very mature?

 

[Big_Spark]

Yawn.....I posted proof...

The world according to the self deluded rules again...BAS, of course your right..the fact that I was discussing things with Oilman and slippery, not you, does seem to have escaped your attention...so you were telling me nothing, you deluded fool...

Well I think this has gone far enough....lets agree to not agree on the points both have made and leave it at that for christ's sake

 

[Softus]

Sorry to come in late on this topic, and especially sorry to reply to a stale posting, but I have to - I got to page 5 and couldn't get past this posting.

Big_Spark - I've become accustomed to silently respecting your point of view on lots of topic, and, although it might irritate you to tell you, the same is true of BAS's postings.

However, I've read the posting that you later said had been misleading, and applied the "benefit of the doubt" principle, but you've just repeated something here that has no meaning whatsoever to competent (lowercase "c") and non-qualified electrician such as me.

Here's the thing:

...if you complete a circuit by making the connection ACROSS A BROKEN NEUTRAL, then the shock you recieve will be the current flowing in the circuit at that time..you will effectively become part of the circuit rather than a seperate circuit..(as with a Phase to neutral or Phase to earth shock)

No. No no no no no. No. No you won't. No. You. Won't. No.

I = V/R. Leaving aside phase effects that I don't pretend to understand, this means that the current through your body is determined by the voltage applied to it and the resistance of it.

I think you're implying that current has a kind of momentum; as if receiving an electric shock is like standing in front of a moving car - the faster the car the greater the injury. I don't think it works like that, but I'm forever open minded.

Maybe I have misinterpreted what you wrote, but you could help me understand if you'd do no more than define the following phrase that you've used: "full load shock".

As an example, if I hold an earth point with one hand and touch, with the other hand, a conductor carrying 1 Amp, the conductor being in a circuit driven by 240VAC, then what is the "full load", and what shock would I receive? For the purpose of this question, please assume that the path between my hands has a resistance of 1500 Ohms.