Why people are dying in the backs of ambulances

[JohnD]

Mottie suggest improvements from first hand observations

Are you sure he's put forward a suggested improvement?

and he's not just whining about what he believes to be a defect in the organisation that's been run by our Conservative government for years?

 

[JohnD]

... efficiently like a private set up ...

cutting costs for greater profits.

Can't argue with that.

"Ford knew that the Pinto represented a serious fire hazard when struck from the rear, even in low-speed collisions. Ford officials faced a decision. Should they go ahead with the existing design, thereby meeting the production timetable but possibly jeopardizing consumer safety? Or should they delay production of the Pinto by redesigning the gas tank to make it safer and thus concede another year of subcompact dominance to foreign companies? Ford not only pushed ahead with the original design but stuck to it for the next six years.


What explains Ford’s decision? The evidence suggests that Ford relied, at least in part, on cost-benefit reasoning, which is an analysis in monetary terms of the expected costs and benefits of doing something. There were various ways of making the Pinto’s gas tank safer. Although the estimated price of these safety improvements ranged from only $5 to $8 per vehicle, Ford evidently reasoned that the increased cost outweighed the benefits of a new tank design"

 

[Andydevon]

Impertinent as it may be for me to suggest or intimate what Mottie wanted to say then yes he did. The drive for efficiency and relating service to value may be not what you like but as a user of the NHS who has experience both really good efficient and cost effective delivery lead by a top notch Consultant against basically crap run to a numbers game manager I know what is better.

 

[Mottie]

JohnD thinks that because it's a public service, you should just chuck money at it willy nilly and then.......blame the Conservatives! Still, JohnD doesn't care as long as he gets to have a pop at the Tories.

 

[transam]

A & E clogged up with drunks on a Friday and Saturday night

Dealing with the consequences of there drunken behaviour

self harm
Violence against others

plod has deal with it as well resources having to be spent on boozed up fruit cakes

 

[SirGalahad]

Nothing up with privatisation if we still pay the same and it stays free at point of use. Too many bad managers and money wasted left right and centre, needs overhauled I so many areas

Who pays for the profits and dividends. How has utilties worked out.

Your privatised system in the US spends 25% on admin - the NHS less than half that.

You really are thicko.

 

[SirGalahad]

Privatisation would get rid of half of the management and based on what I've seen, that wouldn't be a bad thing. It needs somebody to go in and run it like it was a commercial enterprise so that the taxpayers get better value.

Easy to blame managers who work under the conditions set by the Government.

Your privatised system in the US spends 25% on admin - the NHS less than half that.

 

[Mottie]

Easy to blame managers who work under the conditions set by the Government.

Your privatised system in the US spends 25% on admin - the NHS less than half that.

I'll let Mrs Mottie know then. In the past, when top manager number 1 wanted to know something from Mrs Mottie, she would ask manager 2. Manager 2 would ask manager 3. Manager 3 would ask manager 4 and manager 4 would ask Mrs Mottie. Mrs Mottie would give her the answer. Manager 4 then told manager 3, manager 3 told manager 2, manager 2 would tell manager 1. Brilliant system. Presumably the US system have 8 levels of management if they're spending twice as much.

 

[SirGalahad]

From your perspective, how many call outs are to people that are calling an ambulance as a result of a failure to be able to see a GP or slow referral?

I have a guy at work with a bladder problem. It is causing him a lot of pain and his GP has referred him to a specialist for a uroscopy. He was told he get an appointment in 6 weeks. 6 weeks later, no appointment, and the number he's been given for the department goes to answerphone. He's left messages every day for 2 weeks without a call back. He went back to his GP who managed to contact the urology department who told him they had no idea when he'd get an appointment, but he could have an appointment with the nurse who would show him how to catheterise himself.

He's ended up paying to see a specialist privately. I don't blame him as the above sounds like a shambles.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

If the person cannot get to see a GP and its not urgent then they walk into A&E.

If its urgent they shouldnt be seeing a GP in the first place.

The operators who take the calls do initial triage.

As to a slow referral - the NHS was operating above capacity prior to the pandemic. The Government instead of paying money to prop up the private hospitals during the pandemic treated just 8 patients a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...id-patients-a-day-during-pandemic-says-report

Too many have no clue how healthcare systems work or basic economics.

 

[SirGalahad]

I'll let Mrs Mottie know then. In the past, when top manager number 1 wanted to know something from Mrs Mottie, she would ask manager 2. Manager 2 would ask manager 3. Manager 3 would ask manager 4 and manager 4 would ask Mrs Mottie. Mrs Mottie would give her the answer. Manager 4 then told manager 3, manager 3 told manager 2, manager 2 would tell manager 1. Brilliant system. Presumably the US system have 8 levels of management if they're spending twice as much.

You really are such a feeble individual. Have a read. You really have no clue how much private healthcare spends on admin.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31905376/

Tell me how would manager 1 know before asking Mrs Mottie she would know the answer?

Looks like more of your embellishment.

 

[Andydevon]

Oh for gods sake am I reading this nonsense.?

If the person cannot get to see a GP and its not urgent then they walk into A&E.

One of the reasons A&E can't cope is the primary service of GPs is failing. I tried to book a GP appointment this week best they could do was in 7 days time. Maybe that's an issue with efficiency across the whole NHS? I do still remember the real GPs who looked after their patients.

 

[SirGalahad]

Oh for gods sake am I reading this nonsense.?

If the person cannot get to see a GP and its not urgent then they walk into A&E.

On of the reasons A& E can't cope is the primary service of GPs is failing. I tried to book a GP appointment this week best they could do was in 7 days time. Maybe that's an issue with efficiency across the whole NHS? I do still remember the real GPs who looked after their patients.

So tell me how much has been spent on GP services?

Was your need urgent? Could it wait 7 days?

Seems like in the same breath you complain about the services you are happy to support a Government that doesn't invest in them.

 

[Andydevon]

don't be silly this is not about your perverse socialist views but a real issue over delivering health care at first point of contact.

 

[transam]

So tell me how much has been spent on GP services?

Was your need urgent? Could it wait 7 days?

Seems like in the same breath you complain about the services you are happy to support a Government that doesn't invest in them.

how do you know he supports the government ??

or is it just any one who does not agree with you

 

[JohnD]

....Still, JohnD doesn't care as long as he gets to have a pop at the Tories.

mottie complains about a public service that's been run by conservatives for the last 11 years

"not their fault" says mottie

"All they did was lay down the rules for pay, recruitment, organisation, pensions, staffing numbers, external consultancies, contracts of employment...."

"It's not as if they were in charge and bear any responsibility..."