Wiring lights in series

[ban-all-sheds]

doesn't mean its complies just mean the senario is outside the scope off the regs

No it isn't.

 

[JohnW2]

Double pole switching is allowed. What is the situation when switch contacts on the live pole weld together ? Switch OFF and the Neutral is open but the Live is still conected via the weld.

You're talking about a fault situation, not a 'designed in hazard', again.

If switched Neutrals were prohibited under all circumstances then double pole switches would be banned.

You obviously have not read the regulation. Yes, of course, double-pole switches are allowed, despite the once-in-a-blue-moon fault situation you mention above. What is not allowed is a single-pole switch in any neutral - for the (fairly obvious) reasons I have repeatedly mentioned.

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

To complicate things a bit more, the installation I saw - which I assume would have a switched neutral as you describe - was probably installed when things like double pole fusing were still acceptable.

So maybe at the time this was allowed?

On a side note, have only seen a regular lighting circuit with some of the switches only isolating the neutral on VERY OLD wiring, from say the 40s or 50s, where one would have expected only a pro would have installed it. It seems in those days hardly anyone but an electrician would attempt electrical work.

 

[big-all]

doesn't mean its complies just mean the senario is outside the scope off the regs

No it isn't.

it was more off a question than a statement

 

[JohnW2]

To complicate things a bit more, the installation I saw - which I assume would have a switched neutral as you describe - was probably installed when things like double pole fusing were still acceptable. ... So maybe at the time this was allowed?

That may, of course, have been true 'back then' - I have no idea. All I can tell you is that current regs explicitly forbid SP switching of any neutral - so bernard's circuit, with separate switches, would not now be compliant .

On a side note, have only seen a regular lighting circuit with some of the switches only isolating the neutral on VERY OLD wiring, from say the 40s or 50s, where one would have expected only a pro would have installed it.

Fair enough - but why would they have done that? Just because of 'convenience' in some sense, perhaps? Even 75 years ago, the potential danger of switching only a neutral, leaving line connected to the load, must surely have been fairly apparent to anyone who understood anything about electricity and could think?

Kind Regards, John

 

[OwainDIYer]

...on VERY OLD wiring, from say the 40s or 50s, where one would have expected only a pro would have installed it. It seems in those days hardly anyone but an electrician would attempt electrical work.

40s or 50s wiring isn't VERY OLD, it's just quite old.

1920s wiring is very old.

And in Ye Olden Days there was a lot more DIY done and the magazines and books had handy hints like how to make your own plugs with some brass rod and cocus wood. A lot of things were still done better in those days as people took time and trouble, even though safety expectations were rather different of course.

 

[sparkwright]

On a side note, have only seen a regular lighting circuit with some of the switches only isolating the neutral on VERY OLD wiring, from say the 40s or 50s, where one would have expected only a pro would have installed it.

Fair enough - but why would they have done that? Just because of 'convenience' in some sense, perhaps? Even 75 years ago, the potential danger of switching only a neutral, leaving line connected to the load, must surely have been fairly apparent to anyone who understood anything about electricity and could think?

Kind Regards, John

I don't know. Honest mistake I suppose. Don't know if there were rules about it.

Keep finding such faults on old wiring from the good old days.

Maybe it was all a bit new then and people didn't worry so much.

Or testing was a bare minimum.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't know. Honest mistake I suppose. Don't know if there were rules about it. Keep finding such faults on old wiring from the good old days. Maybe it was all a bit new then and people didn't worry so much.

We just didn't think much about safety back then, even though we had the knowledge, had we been bothered to apply it. Back in the 60s I built countless power supplies (or power supplies as part of other equipment), part of the front panel invariably looked something like this (apologies for ancient photo!):

Those are two Bulgin dual fuse holders. The one on the right, under the (wonky!) red neon will have held fuses in both L and N of the incoming supply (the two fuses in the LH holder would have been for outputs, each with its green neon). That was totally 'standard' in those days, and it was only decades later that the hazard of having a fuse in the neutral even occurred to me!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

it was more off a question than a statement

Sorry - I've read this carefully several times:

"more off a "sh1t whats all this about" moment lol
the regs cover every avenue in a normal domestic situation assuming only the normal is applied
in other words it wont cover any unusual senario like this as its off on a tangent like you cant cover every possible senario within the regs iff you go off on a tangent to an area not specifically covered
doesn't mean its complies just mean the senario is outside the scope off the regs"

and I really cannot see how I'm supposed to know it's a question, nor do I have a clue what it's asking.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Even 75 years ago, the potential danger of switching only a neutral, leaving line connected to the load, must surely have been fairly apparent to anyone who understood anything about electricity and could think?

The world is full of people who cannot, will not, think, and amongst them are those who consider themselves to be electricians.

Why should it not always have been thus?

 

[ericmark]

I remember using a 60W bulb with a 60W soldering iron and the bulb was a red glow used to save the bit of the soldering iron. But also had a pair of 300W spot lamps on a Cine Camera with series parallel switch and even in the dim setting they were quite bright. So for series parallel dimming the bulbs must be large.

The switch for Cine Camera had centre off so clearly break before make.