Worried about electrics

[ericmark]

Rather interesting reply. So how does anyone find out if the work has been registered? I was always under the impression that when work was done which was in a special area that the electrician issued the installation certificate and the scheme provider or LABC issued the completion certificate. Where the completion certificate was issued by the scheme provider I though one was forwarded to the LABC.

Now you are saying the electrician raises the completion certificate this leaves the system open for abuse. If the electrician does not tell the scheme provider he has done the work how does the scheme provider do random checks to see if the work is to the required standard?

Where work below standard was completed the electrician could issue a completion certificate and then hide all records of the work being done. So unless the home owner complains then they will never get caught.

To me this means the whole of the Part P is a farce.

 

[bernardgreen]

Where work below standard was completed the electrician could issue a completion certificate and then hide all records of the work being done. So unless the home owner complains then they will never get caught.

Exactly. And it isn't only in the electrical trade that that happens.

To me this means the whole of the Part P is a farce.

it was never intended to be any form of quality control on trades people. It was only intended to bring electrical work into the same area of "control" that other building work is subjected to.

Part P like the other parts relies on honest trades people doing the work properly. Sadly many "trades people" pay nothing but lip service to building control and a few actively work to circumvent the controls in order to cut costs. There are many defects that go un-noticed until walls crack, drains back up, water drips from the ceiling etc etc and the home owner realises that the work was not done properly even though the building control office were aware of the work being done.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can casually say it's up to you to register the work and any court would have a really hard job to blame me.

You should read the Building Regulations - all of them, not just the parts that apply to electrical work.

It is full of things which say what the person carrying out the work shall or shall not do during and after the course of the work, and the overwhelming balance of them are such that it would be utter nonsense for them to mean what the person ordering the work shall do or not do during and after the course of it. Also look at the guide to the Building Regulations where it says who is responsible for notifying.


Basically if it really came down to it you would not have a snowball's chance in hell of a court agreeing that "the person carrying out the work" meant anything other than what it says literally. If you are carrying out notifiable work then you are responsible for notifying, nobody else.

You can ask your client to act as your agent and notify, and to pay the fee, if you're in agreement, but it remains your responsibility to notify by some means or other.

But if I provide one and say I thought the client had registered the work then it would be near impossible to show I had broken the law.

Given your clear legal duty I think you'd be made to feel pretty miserable if it were shown that you had exercised no diligence whatsoever to ensure that your client had carried out the task you had set him.

Now I am not really looking for work so first statement is "I am not a scheme member it may be cheaper for you to go elsewhere" but if I was short then don't think I am breaking the law by not pointing it out?

See above. You are the person carrying out the work.

So as a non registered electrician if the client tells me the work has been registered and the LABC says go ahead I have no real way to know if they are lying or not. If the LABC issued a permit to work then I would have no excuse but since I know they don't then at end of the day it's all down to the owner.

It's your responsibility. If you don't feel that there is any way to trust a 3rd party to do what you've agreed they will do in order for your responsibility to be discharged then don't ask them.

You wouldn't do it with, say, car insurance, where you could end up driving around without any because the 3rd party hadn't gone and paid the premium like he said he would and you had no way to check that he had, would you?

Part P is just a money making exercise and is nothing to do with safety.

 

[ericmark]

When the builder ran off into the Welsh hills who was building my mothers wet room I contacted the LABC to see how I could take over the job.

We were told in no uncertain terms as the owner of the property it was my fathers responsibility to ensure building control were notified. Although most builders will do the job of notifying the council it is never the less down to the owner to ensure it is done.

He pointed out builders come and go and so at the end of day it was down to the owner to correct any faults. The owner could in turn take the builder to court and if the workmanship was not to standard then the LA may also get involved. So not saying a shoddy builder would get away scot free.

I have watched the builders from hell TV shows from time to time and I am amazed the LABC is never taken to task for allowing the work to go ahead. It does seem the LABC changes the rules to suit themselves.

I have looked for court cases over Part P. Where either the electrician has claimed to be a scheme member but is not, or where sub-standard work has been done there are many court cases. But where the electrician has never claimed to be a member of a scheme and his workmanship is A1 there do not seem to be any court cases.

Until a nation wide permit to work system is introduced I can't see that changing. The LABC inspector told me I would need to wait for paper work. I pointed out it was emergency work and was given go ahead. The paperwork never arrived. Only the final completion certificate.

So tell me how any non scheme member will ever know if the owner has registered the work or not? He is not going to phone the LABC he is going to take owners word for it.

It is a complete and utter mess. And the English government is doing something about it. However that will not affect Wales we will like Scotland once the new laws go though be independent of England.

Likely it will revert to case law but who knows.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So tell me how any non scheme member will ever know if the owner has registered the work or not? He is not going to phone the LABC he is going to take owners word for it.

If he can't, then he must not ask the owner to notify - simples.