Worried about my plumbers competence
- Thread starter achrn
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Dan he has a point. In his quest to be factually correct, agile got the first bit of his stuff wrong.
Gas safe wrote a big article and TB on boilers installed by unregistered and what you should do If you find your self in the position of needing to commission one....they don't insist you remove it from the wall at all.
Over zealous engineers may but GSR don't.
I hadn't read all of Tony's post, and seeing as the guy has GS registration it is a moot point. But I agree he (Tony) was factually incorrect.
No, I was referring to the builder being offended by the OP discovering the problems with the cylinder and condensate. Boiler faults outside the condensate being a tad daft and an as yet unknown electrical problem I have refrained from commenting on due to lack of info and not seeing the job first hand.
No, I was referring to the builder being offended by the OP discovering the problems with the cylinder and condensate. Boiler faults outside the condensate being a tad daft and an as yet unknown electrical problem I have refrained from commenting on due to lack of info and not seeing the job first hand.
Returning to plumbing:
Measured as accurately as I can along the pipe centreline from the very top of the tundish to the very edge of the T&P valve on the cylinder, is 960mm. I believe that's another fault, and the limit is 500mm.
However, I don't find any comment on bends or elbows affecting that length. I have two 90 bends, a 90 degree elbow and a 45 degree bend in that length. Does that matter?
With regards to the pipe downstream of the tundish, it is 22mm, I think I have just under 300mm straight pipe before the first bend, then I have about 5.2m nearly horizontal (but it does fall the whole way) then a 90 degree elbow and about 2.5m vertical before it terminates just above ground level in a narrow gap between my house and my neighbours (my neighbour has no access there, I have if I squeeze through a gap in the fence or climb out a window).
As I read the cylinder manual, this is another fault - 9 - 2 x 0.8 gives me 7.4m max length - I have about 8.0m. Actually, I'm not sure it's one elbow at the end - I've a suspicion it's three (I can't see how the pipe goes in where it goes in and comes out where it comes out, if you see what I mean) which would bring the limit down to 5.8m. I'm going to investigate that.
The discharge point probably does meet requirements - it's less than 100mm above a bed of gravel that's over rough old concrete from a former garage slab.
From primary circuit relief valve to the tundish is about 600mm, and from inlet group relief valve to the tundish is about 500mm.
Also, I commented earlier about no balanced cold downstairs, despite there being a mixer shower down there. The suggestion was that as long as my incoming mains pressure wasn't really high it would be OK not taking an actual balanced supply.
I've bought a gauge thing (pressure gauge on a little length of braided hose on an outside tap adapter) and it measures 3.4 bar (bearing in mind I doubt this is a highly calibrated gauge) without any water flowing. Given that the tap I measured at is about 3m below the inlet group, this means unbalanced cold pressure is going to be substantially identical to hot pressure.
That, though, assumes there's not significant seasonal variation of mains pressure. I assume there isn't (I can't see how there would be) but presumably summer mains pressures aren't higher than winter pressures?
Measured as accurately as I can along the pipe centreline from the very top of the tundish to the very edge of the T&P valve on the cylinder, is 960mm. I believe that's another fault, and the limit is 500mm.
However, I don't find any comment on bends or elbows affecting that length. I have two 90 bends, a 90 degree elbow and a 45 degree bend in that length. Does that matter?
With regards to the pipe downstream of the tundish, it is 22mm, I think I have just under 300mm straight pipe before the first bend, then I have about 5.2m nearly horizontal (but it does fall the whole way) then a 90 degree elbow and about 2.5m vertical before it terminates just above ground level in a narrow gap between my house and my neighbours (my neighbour has no access there, I have if I squeeze through a gap in the fence or climb out a window).
As I read the cylinder manual, this is another fault - 9 - 2 x 0.8 gives me 7.4m max length - I have about 8.0m. Actually, I'm not sure it's one elbow at the end - I've a suspicion it's three (I can't see how the pipe goes in where it goes in and comes out where it comes out, if you see what I mean) which would bring the limit down to 5.8m. I'm going to investigate that.
The discharge point probably does meet requirements - it's less than 100mm above a bed of gravel that's over rough old concrete from a former garage slab.
From primary circuit relief valve to the tundish is about 600mm, and from inlet group relief valve to the tundish is about 500mm.
Also, I commented earlier about no balanced cold downstairs, despite there being a mixer shower down there. The suggestion was that as long as my incoming mains pressure wasn't really high it would be OK not taking an actual balanced supply.
I've bought a gauge thing (pressure gauge on a little length of braided hose on an outside tap adapter) and it measures 3.4 bar (bearing in mind I doubt this is a highly calibrated gauge) without any water flowing. Given that the tap I measured at is about 3m below the inlet group, this means unbalanced cold pressure is going to be substantially identical to hot pressure.
That, though, assumes there's not significant seasonal variation of mains pressure. I assume there isn't (I can't see how there would be) but presumably summer mains pressures aren't higher than winter pressures?
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Seasonal variations will be minimal (droughts not withstanding). But day/night variations can be huge.
I would get the balanced supply joined, or if that is too much to do logistically, get a pressure reducing valve fitted jut after the main stop cock.
As for the Tundish.... the chap that does the rectifying should spot it and put it down for the remedial work.
I suspect the cylinder will be coming out anyway.
.
I would get the balanced supply joined, or if that is too much to do logistically, get a pressure reducing valve fitted jut after the main stop cock.
As for the Tundish.... the chap that does the rectifying should spot it and put it down for the remedial work.
I suspect the cylinder will be coming out anyway.
.
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14 pages of this
Should be quite simple
Original p,umber sacked
Builder has new plumber.
You have all the manuals so you know it's not right.
Technical issue are one thing, beauty of pipe work is another( as dan knows I don't think his is that special)
Give all the info to the new plumber.
Gas safe don't mean they'll be any good
Gas safe don't mean they can fit unventeds.
There seriously can't be any need to keep measuring bits to within an inch of their lives as we can see from the photos it ain't right and it ain't pretty.
Should be quite simple
Original p,umber sacked
Builder has new plumber.
You have all the manuals so you know it's not right.
Technical issue are one thing, beauty of pipe work is another( as dan knows I don't think his is that special)
Give all the info to the new plumber.
Gas safe don't mean they'll be any good
Gas safe don't mean they can fit unventeds.
There seriously can't be any need to keep measuring bits to within an inch of their lives as we can see from the photos it ain't right and it ain't pretty.
You big meany
A
ALEC1
Your point being Lee?
The OP is doubting (rightly) the competance of a sub contractor, and blaming the subbie.. It is the builders responsability to sort thid out, and it is him whom should be taken to task, not the subbie..
Somewhere in the topsy turvey modern world someone somewhere is over looking their responsabilities...its like blaming tesco's horsemeat on the checkout operator..
The OP is just using his modern right of expressing an opinion instead of holding the main contractor builder to task..
The OP is doubting (rightly) the competance of a sub contractor, and blaming the subbie.. It is the builders responsability to sort thid out, and it is him whom should be taken to task, not the subbie..
Somewhere in the topsy turvey modern world someone somewhere is over looking their responsabilities...its like blaming tesco's horsemeat on the checkout operator..
The OP is just using his modern right of expressing an opinion instead of holding the main contractor builder to task..
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My point bein is he knows himself its dire, he has the instructions so knows its not installed to them.
Does he really need everyone to tell him how shoddy it is. Do we really need a run down of every inch of the discharge pipework, it looks ****e but as we're not there to put it right it doesn't matter what we say.
Does he really need everyone to tell him how shoddy it is. Do we really need a run down of every inch of the discharge pipework, it looks ****e but as we're not there to put it right it doesn't matter what we say.
Err, no. It's like blaming Tesco's horsemeat on the person that put horsemeat in the mix. Is that so very wrong? And in fact, has a Tescos boss been arrested? No. Have abattoir operatives been arrested? Yes.
The builder was doing what some people in the forum think should be the natural order of things - believing the 'professional' rather than the customer who has no qualifications.
The builder is being held liable for getting it put right. It has simply taken a very long time (and lots of guidance for me from this thread) to convince him that I was right when I said there were things that needed putting right.
I'm still learning useful things here - it had not occurred to me that there was a diurnal variation in mains pressure, for example.
A
ALEC1
you miss the point.. if Tesco's had been checking the quality of the meat and doing there job properly no horse meat would enter the supply chain...
its the same with plumbers employed by builders...they should be checking competencies but don't...its too much effort...
and no surprise the abattoir owners are in the pooh...its a feature of bully boy Britain that the bottom of the pile is always in the wrong...
its the same with plumbers employed by builders...they should be checking competencies but don't...its too much effort...
and no surprise the abattoir owners are in the pooh...its a feature of bully boy Britain that the bottom of the pile is always in the wrong...
Alec - this guy was "competent".
Anyway - Horse is quite tasty.
Anyway - Horse is quite tasty.
A
ALEC1
So were the abbatoirs...what does that tell you about "systems" in the UK?
How interesting.
There is this misconception that if you hold a G3 Tkt, that makes hyou competent, well, it doesnt.
There is also the assumption that if you are Gas Safe registered, then you are competent enough to fit boilers and do all that your ID Card says you are competent to do.
WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS.
Folks urn hear are asking why I bovered to get a G3 Tkt if I'll encourage Joe Public to fit their own unvented cylinders?
That is their choice.
So the plumber did not inform BC in advance of the install so what? It;s not the end of the world. Were the OP to contact BC to come have a look at the install, and after paying the appropriate fee, they will come and advice accordingly. The worst they can do if advice him that they should have been informed in advance. All the same, they will attend. There i something called ''common sense'', most councils apply it.
Peeps urn hear keep banging the drum about being Gas Engineers and putting down plumbahs?
They aint gotta clues what it takes to be an Engineer. The qualifications involved, ffftttt. ENGINEER, yeah, right.
There is this misconception that if you hold a G3 Tkt, that makes hyou competent, well, it doesnt.
There is also the assumption that if you are Gas Safe registered, then you are competent enough to fit boilers and do all that your ID Card says you are competent to do.
WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS.
Folks urn hear are asking why I bovered to get a G3 Tkt if I'll encourage Joe Public to fit their own unvented cylinders?
That is their choice.
So the plumber did not inform BC in advance of the install so what? It;s not the end of the world. Were the OP to contact BC to come have a look at the install, and after paying the appropriate fee, they will come and advice accordingly. The worst they can do if advice him that they should have been informed in advance. All the same, they will attend. There i something called ''common sense'', most councils apply it.
Peeps urn hear keep banging the drum about being Gas Engineers and putting down plumbahs?
They aint gotta clues what it takes to be an Engineer. The qualifications involved, ffftttt. ENGINEER, yeah, right.
Not following your logic.
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