he`s working with another builder called in to put right a cocked up extension ( decorating) Not much hope for the future of the industry
The decorators (appointed by the builder) start work today...
Worried about my plumbers competence
- Thread starter achrn
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The decorators (appointed by the builder) start work today...
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ALEC1
I too would work with the OP...he is the type of client that is interested and motivated...just what one needs...
My only point is that the industry is the way it is because the people who retain our services are not very demanding...
Whilst I couldn't claim to motivate him, I hope he see's that the failing is in the builders judgement, as well as the plumber operating out of scope...
My only point is that the industry is the way it is because the people who retain our services are not very demanding...
Whilst I couldn't claim to motivate him, I hope he see's that the failing is in the builders judgement, as well as the plumber operating out of scope...
Absolutely - the plumber was incompetent, but the builder appointed an incompetent and insufficiently qualified plumber.
Also, most of the real problems were not actually the plumber being incompetent, they were the builder not recognising or believing that - had the plumber been my direct appointment, he'd have been out long before he actually was and it would all be fixed by now.
Those that have said I should have just sacked teh plumber 15 forum pages ago are overlooking the fact that he wasn't mine to sack - he was appointed by the builder. I didn't want to sack the builder, so the best I could do was highlight the incompetence of his subbie. Unfortunately, faced with a client saying "I have no actual qualifications but I think he's doing it wrong" and a professional plumber saying "bloody busybody client, I've installed hundreds of these, it's all perfectly fine" the builder believed the plumber.
It was only when the plumber did something that appeared to me sufficiently dangerous that I would have been prepared to sack the builder to get the plumber off my heating that the seriousness of my concerns got through to the builder.
For those that have criticised how the OP went about things - well it's just as well he did what he did, the way he did it.
Imagine if he had blindly trusted his builder and plumber, and actually started using the install as it was. With the hw cylinder alone, the OP could have had his very own space programme. "Houston we have a problem".
OP - please keep us informed of how things pan out.
Imagine if he had blindly trusted his builder and plumber, and actually started using the install as it was. With the hw cylinder alone, the OP could have had his very own space programme. "Houston we have a problem".
OP - please keep us informed of how things pan out.
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For those that have criticised how the OP went about things - well it's just as well he did what he did, the way he did it.
Imagine if he had blindly trusted his builder and plumber, and actually started using the install as it was. With the hw cylinder alone, the OP could have had his very own space programme. "Houston we have a problem".
OP - please keep us informed of how things pan out.
Er Think you,ll find the OP had the best advice to do somthing constructive like have the plumber escorted off of site a week ago seeing as the numerous errors were pointed out, instead we have now have a house of commons debate when the new fitter could have had the system correctly installed up and running by now, its his property and his money no builder can tell him that the present plumber is ok and staying put.
For those that have criticised how the OP went about things - well it's just as well he did what he did, the way he did it.
Imagine if he had blindly trusted his builder and plumber, and actually started using the install as it was. With the hw cylinder alone, the OP could have had his very own space programme. "Houston we have a problem".
OP - please keep us informed of how things pan out.
Er Think you,ll find the OP had the best advice to do somthing constructive like have the plumber escorted off of site a week ago seeing as the numerous errors were pointed out, instead we have now have a house of commons debate when the new fitter could have had the system correctly installed up and running by now, its his property and his money no builder can tell him that the present plumber is ok and staying put.
It's not just a simple case of advising that the plumber should go, even if it was a week ago. I should imagine that the OP is very wary, and understandably needs lots more info.
It's on a JCT building contract. There is a right for the customer to terminate the entire contract if the contractor "is so incompetent or careless that the work is of an unacceptable standard", but there's no right of veto over subcontractors, or equivalent right to eject just one subcontractor. So actually yes the builder can say that the present plumber is ok and staying put.
Therefore, as noted in my previous post, it only becomes possible (or at least sensible) to require ejection of a particular subbie when things have got so bad that it's worth terminating the whole contract. In my judgement, that did not occur until the point where the plumber said an unvented cylinder with no expansion vessel was complete and finished and perfectly fine.
This poor plumber has turned up done not the best of jobs and you lot have him banged to rights and have slated the poor bloke for everything ????? hope you lot are as good as you think you are !!!
Indeed - in fact you can remove right of access to your property from any individual for any reason (with a few exceptions - you can't deny access to the VAT man for example).
However, the customer has a duty to allow access to the contractor for the duration of the contract, so the customer would then be in breach, so the contractor could then terminate the contract and would be entitled to be paid immediately to date. Better (for the customer) to do what I proposed and terminate the contract on the grounds of breach by the contractor. Then the client does not have to pay until the replacement contractor he appoints has completed the work.
I'm much stronger on contracts than I am on plumbing. I remain convinced that the route I took was contractually appropriate - but I suspect this is not the place for detailed discussion of such matters.
However, the customer has a duty to allow access to the contractor for the duration of the contract, so the customer would then be in breach, so the contractor could then terminate the contract and would be entitled to be paid immediately to date. Better (for the customer) to do what I proposed and terminate the contract on the grounds of breach by the contractor. Then the client does not have to pay until the replacement contractor he appoints has completed the work.
I'm much stronger on contracts than I am on plumbing. I remain convinced that the route I took was contractually appropriate - but I suspect this is not the place for detailed discussion of such matters.
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Agreed, OP has thrown this plumber into the lions den when he could have been spared the humiliation and embarrassment of the whole episode, what really puzzles me is how he,s still there and not gone of his own acord
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Interestingly the very first pic with the vessel on the hot water outlet albeit not to the manufacturers instructions was common place on many cylinders and isn't dangerous!
It only became a safety issue when you made him move it!
It only became a safety issue when you made him move it!
I required that he move it, yes. That he moved it to a dangerous location cannot in any way be blamed on me. I didn't make it a safety issue, the incompetent plumber my builder chose made it a safety issue.
If it is actually perfectly fine where it was, why does the manufacturer not list that as an alternative?
When I made the original post I was prepared to be told that yes the TF1 orientation was a cockup but all the rest was OK because the manufacturers instructions are actually just guidelines and there are lots of acceptable ways to hook it all up.
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