Xpelair fan with timer and Humidstat ?

[EFLImpudence]

If you do decide to change it.

Clean it up, take it back to Screwfix.
If they give you your money back get one of these.

http://www.discount-electrical.co.u...r-dx100-mains-voltage-axial-fans-4-inch-100mm

Preferably this one.

http://www.discount-electrical.co.u...--timer---universal-mounting-kit-4-100mm-240v

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just looking at things again.

The Screwfix site does say LV100H with Humidistat and Timer.

Either the 'LV100H' is wrong OR 'and Timer' is wrong.


Xpelair site.

LV100..... Standard
LV100PC. with Pullcord
LV100T....with Timer
LV100H....with Humidistat
LV100HP..with Humidistat and Pullcord
LV100PIR.with PIR


So, either yours is a LV100 mis-described by Screwfix or
it actually does have a timer (IN THE TRANSFORMER) and Screwfix have the number wrong.

If the former then you have grounds for a refund.
If the latter then suitably wiring the transformer will enable you to do what you want.

 

[Lusi83]

Thank you -
I haven't got all the info/paperwork with me (at the new house - which is tricky to get to at weekend when have children in tow and it resembles a building site with plaster dust and floor boards up etc) -but will then have a look at all the stuff that came with it ....get onto xpelair and then back to screwfix ...like I said the electricians told me to take it back -but screwfix insisted it was right ... on the box and in the instruction manual (if my memory serves me right) there appears to be information about the different fans in this range...which made it more confusing-!
Really not impressed with it all ...have loads of stuff to sort out - without all the hassle over a fan!
Will also have a word with electricians re the zoning and whether it has to be low voltage - it is effectively over the bath so Zone 1? anyway they will know better than I do...

 

[jj4091]

According to the wiring diagram there are only two wires from the transformer to the fan.
So modifications are likely to be impossible.

There is no timer (timer model has timer integral with transformer).

Unless a pullcord switch can be fitted across the humidistat you cannot do what you want.

A 240V fan with timer and humidistat and pullcord would have been more suitable.

According to this http://www.applied-energy.com/media/uploads/LV100 RANGE INSTRUCTIONS.pdf the timer & humidistat appear to be on a pcb inside the fan. I would not have thought it would take much to short out the stat.

The humidistat is in the fan with permanent 12V supply.

However, it must be just a standard diagram (which shows the timer adjustment in the fan) as there's no way a timer (in the fan) can work with just a 12V permanent live.

When fitted it must be in the transformer as this has permanent and switched 240V.

I'm sorry to disagree with you EFLI but I think you are misleading the poster. The instructions http://www.applied-energy.com/media/uploads/LV100 RANGE INSTRUCTIONS.pdf on the xpel site clearly state it has a stat & timer
"LV100H
• Operates when triggered automatically by the
humidity sensor.
• Built-in timer automatically operates fan for a
preset delay of 2 to 20 minutes once humidity
drops below preset Relative Humidity (RH) "
& diagrams H, J & K show them to be in the fan. Why do you feel that a timer cannot be incorporated in this way? I am no electronics expert, but a simple RC network & flip flop could be used to bypass the stat & keep the fan running for a preset time after the humidistat has opened.

 

[jj4091]

I don't get the point of this fan at all ...why have a timer if it won't work anyway unless it is humid?

Thats a good question & in theory you should not need it, but my guess would be that the humidistat sensor only works in a localised area around the fan & the fan needs to be kept running to ensure the whole room is exhausted, which is why the timing is variable ie. in a small shower room you would not need to have it running on as long as in a larger bathroom.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm sorry to disagree with you EFLI but I think you are misleading the poster. The instructions http://www.applied-energy.com/media/uploads/LV100 RANGE INSTRUCTIONS.pdf on the xpel site clearly state it has a stat & timer
"LV100H

That's alright. I am not 100% certain in that I have not wired one myself.

What you say is correct.
However, the Xpelair list of models (on the cover) does not include one with both a timer and a humidistat so it is unclear.

The instructions (page 4) indicate that a timer causes run-on only after the humidistat turns off.
This would not allow (what I would call) 'normal' timer operation by way of the light switch.
So, whilst it may actually include a 'timer' it is to all intents and purpose pointless and unnecessary when the humidity has reached its low level.
Is this normal for 12V fans?

Furthermore, there are only two (12V) wires from the transformerto the fan so this must be permanently live for the humidistat to work.
Provision for a switched (240V) live is only at the transformer (in actual timer model, 100T) so any wiring options, other than a pullcord switch across the humidistat, are only possible at the transformer.
I suppose these days it is possible for electronics in the transformer to trigger the fan with signals for different operations.

I do think I am correct in that for the fan to work with the light switch or manual switch (as normal) then it cannot include a humidistat.

We do not know if Lusi's transformer does indeed include a terminal for a switched live.

If I am wrong, why could the electrician fitting the fan not do it so that the fan worked as required?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Thinking some more -

In fact the only way a straight timer model (without humidistat) could work (with the timer in the fan and switched live at the transformer) is by electronics.

So, who knows?, It all depends on whether there is a switched live at Lusi's transformer - or not.

 

[jj4091]

I agree about the front page being unclear, but further on & in the S/fix ad. it is stated it has both. That is why I do not think Lusi will have any joy in getting an exchange or refund.
My opinion would be( & like you I haven't seen one of these) is that they are intended to be switched on then left on & controlled only by the stat., the reason for having a timer, I suspect, is as I described to Lusi.
I can't say why the electrician has said or done anything, as I've said I'm speculating.
Going by other fans I have seen & the drawing "K" I would have thought that there would have been a terminal block on one end of the pcb for the input & one the other end for the o/p to the fan motor & connecting the i/p wires to the o/p terminals should override the stat & the timer & allow Lusi to operate the fan only from the switch outside the bathroom.

 

[EFLImpudence]

connecting the i/p wires to the o/p terminals should override the stat & the timer & allow Lusi to operate the fan only from the switch outside the bathroom.

Yes, I agree (and the same for a pull cord) after all, theoretically, (nearly) anything is possible but that is tinkering with the internal circuitry and workings of the fan and whether the electrician would be willing to do and feel comfortable doing this with the possibility of damaging the fan.

You could say the same for buying a timer fan and connecting an after market humidistat.

I say again, if there is a switched live terminal in the transformer it may be easily done but we don't know.
In the instructions for the 100H there is no switched live connection.

However, as far as the as-bought item is concerned I stand by what I have said in that, at the moment, the fan is not what is usually meant by a timer model merely a humidistat model with (seemingly unnecessary) over-run.

 

[Lusi83]

Update
Spoke to Xpelair - trying to upgrade it to a pull cord one - and they said they wouldn't recommend it and cos of the position of fan a pull cord wouldn't be ideal anyway ...they told me the only low voltage Xpelair fan with humidistat and manual override timer that can be wired onto a lighting circuit is a LVSLDC100HT
Spoke to Manrose and they say a XF100HTLVT (inc transformer) would be suitable too...
Spoke to Screwfix - and they agreed it is misleading! and that I could return it, even though it had been installed ..to take it back in 'some kind of packaging -not necessarily the original'
(Should say - not only on the Xpelair web site is it described just as a Humidistat, but also on the front of the instruction book that comes with it and the box it came in is used for different fans ...so when I first took it back they read stuff on the box about timers - but that was for different models!)
Anyway fan returned to screwfix, they don't do either of the models I need -so got a refund
Edmundsons can get them both but the Xpelair is cheaper than the Manrose
Now going to absolutely double check that the Xpelair is the right one and then just need to get it fitted!
Still a lot of hassle for a fan! And thanks for all the advice ...and helping me understand...I really thought I might just be being thick!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well done.

Thanks for letting us know.