Yet more censorship

[SUNRAY]

Often when I write something I look back at what I wrote and think to myself "do I really need to say that?", "Will my posting this help the conversation at all?" and generally if the answer is "no" then I simply delete what I wrote. Having actually written it the urge to post it is then gone.

Believe it or not I do the same, especially when I get into rant mode, I go one step further; after writing a reply I tend to do something else like read/reply to another thread or make a C.O.T. then come back to it. Quite often that is a long time later and by the time I do post there may be several more posts and I find myself repeating others comments.

I have moderated other forums, it's not an easy life but it's done because it needs doing, sometimes you have to make the decision to remove something because of the furor it will cause no matter if it's factually correct or not.
(I now moderate over 12000 members of some recycling groups, thankfully wed don't have discussions like here.)

I've also had the dubious priviledge of moderating forums and it certainly aint easy, especially where all posts are moderated. One of the big headaches is people with their crusades, like winston1, repeatedly spoiling the threads.

PS. Following on from ist paragraph, I have just deleted 4 critical paragraphs. with a wee break between.

 

[JohnW2]

Sadly very few on here would be able to recall the last time winston1 posted something interesting/useful.

That's what I have found myself increasingly thinking and writing.

There have been others in the past (particularly one!) who tended to drive us mad, and the mods could probably have found a reason to 'ban' him almost every day, but that never happened (other than for very brief periods), since his nuisance etc. value was more than balanced by a lot of very valuable contributions to the forum.

In the case we are discussing, I struggle to find any such 'mitigating'/'balancing' factors.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I make mistakes, and Wilson has correctly pointed them out, as have others, but to say some some one should have said some thing which is clearly wrong, not sure where this is going.

I do wish Winston could differentiate between LED elements and LED lamps

LED lamps use one or more LED elements to convert electric current into light.

An LED element requires a controlled DC current. This current is provided by and controlled by an LED driver

An LED lamp has LED element(s) and an integral LED driver.

So Winston should have said
"" LED lamps don’t normally require D.C"
"" LED drivers can run on D.C. or 50/60 Hz AC""

LED lamps like many other lamps can be AC or DC, I have not looked at integral units to see if they need DC or AC or either, but I know bulbs are often marked 50 Hz so clearly AC, and also seen clearly marked 10 - 30 volt DC.

There are drivers which can run on AC, the simple capacitor for example, which will not work with DC, and many pulse width modulated chips will not work on AC.

I am sure there was some context where the statements were nearly correct, I know we do have LED elements

but is it so different to a lamp

or bulb

well clearly yes, but again down to context, and yes I hate it when some one calls the parts used to make a lamp, a lamp, like calling a steering wheel a car, but as long as you understand what is being talked about does it matter?

We know a ring main is not used with domestic wiring and what they mean is a ring final, but if talking about the supply to a house you could well have a ring main. So most of us know what is meant.

 

[bernardgreen]

looks like a bulb but is in fact a number of LED elements ( light emitters visible through the glass ) and a compact driver ( hidden in the screw cap ). Emitters together with an integral driver make it a lamp

is a bulb with a hot wire filament ( light emitter visible through the glass ) the ends of which connects directly to the contacts in the cap. There is no driver involved.

 

[JohnW2]

I know we do have LED elements ... <photo>

What you illustrate is not an 'LED element' but, rather a product comntaining multipole LED elements, seemingly arranged in groups, together with electronics to control the current supplied to those elements (and convert from AC to DC in the case of an AC supply), all within an envelope. In other words, it is a lamp/bulb.

If you connect an LED element directly to a source of electricity of any sort, without any controlling components, it will blow up.

... but is it so different to a lamp ... ,another photo>

Not different all all - since, as above, your first illustration, as well as the second, IS ALSO of a lamp/bulb.

... and yes I hate it when some one calls the parts used to make a lamp, a lamp ...

I'm not sure I would say that I 'hate' it, but, as I often say, one soon discovers how ridiculous it is if one goes into virtually any retail outlet and looks at the faces of people when one asks for a "lamp for one's table lamp" (or for one's Standard lamp/Inspection lamp/headlamp/whatever).

If some people decided that they no longer liked the word "bulb", they surely should have come up with some totally new word, rather than creating confusion and ambiguity by hijacking the word which had been in use for decades to describe the thing 'into which one put' the item in question, shouldn't they?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

If some people decided that they no longer liked the word "bulb", they surely should have come up with some totally new word, rather than creating confusion and ambiguity by hijacking the word which had been in use for decades to describe the thing 'into which one put' the item in question, shouldn't they?

Exactly my point, it really gets on my wick, mantel, or element.

 

[JohnW2]

Exactly my point, it really gets on my wick, mantel, or element.

I'm more amused than annoyed or irritated by it - but 'just plain daft' is the only way I can think of describing it.

I'm more worried about telling members of the general public (like 'DIYers') that mains electricity is 'Low Voltage', because therein I perceive some potential dangers.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm more amused than annoyed or irritated by it - but 'just plain daft' is the only way I can think of describing it.

I'm more worried about telling members of the general public (like 'DIYers') that mains electricity is 'Low Voltage', because therein I perceive some potential dangers.

Kind Regards, John

Not only the general public...
Several years ago a factory had a safety inspection after 3 people suffered injuries on the same day (one was me) all totally unrelated.

The inspector highlighted lack of safety labels and promptly stuck 'Danger High Voltage' stickers on all trunking, switchgear etc. I went in with another to assess some highlighted electrical issues and promptly refused point blank to do any work as we are not qualified to work on HV despite knowing there was not a single bit of HV in the building. We recommented the inspecting company should not be paid.

 

[Old Salt]

I worked at a place making such signs, amongst other things. One customer asked for 50 signs saying “ DAGNER 450 VOLTS”

 

[SUNRAY]

I worked at a place making such signs, amongst other things. One customer asked for 50 signs saying “ DAGNER 450 VOLTS”

But don't forget; at one time 450V was well within spec for 3ph... and transformers may have had a 450 or 460V tap too

 

[Old Salt]

But don't forget; at one time 450V was well within spec for 3ph... and transformers may have had a 450 or 460V tap too

Yes but you need to check the spelling - DAGNER

 

[JohnW2]

Not only the general public... Several years ago a factory had a safety inspection after 3 people suffered injuries on the same day (one was me) all totally unrelated. The inspector highlighted lack of safety labels and promptly stuck 'Danger High Voltage' stickers on all trunking, switchgear etc. I went in with another to assess some highlighted electrical issues and promptly refused point blank to do any work as we are not qualified to work on HV despite knowing there was not a single bit of HV in the building. We recommented the inspecting company should not be paid.

I can believe it.

A problem in relation to the general public (and maybe also some 'safety inspectors' ) is that a sign which said "DANGER - LOW VOLTAGE" would, at the least, confuse them!

As I've often said, my concern remains that, to the vast majority of the general public, "Low Voltage" seems to imply 'safe'. As I think I've said before, I questioned some family members, and they felt that being told that something operated on 'Low Voltage' meant that it would be safe to allow their small children 'play with it' - even if that involved submersing it in water or poking metal skewers through small holes in its casing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I can believe it.

A problem in relation to the general public (and maybe also some 'safety inspectors' ) is that a sign which said "DANGER - LOW VOLTAGE" would, at the least, confuse them!
Kind Regards, John

Yes but if the sign showed 'HAZARDOUS VOLTAGE' I'd be totally happy

As I've often said, my concern remains that, to the vast majority of the general public, "Low Voltage" seems to imply 'safe'. As I think I've said before, I questioned some family members, and they felt that being told that something operated on 'Low Voltage' meant that it would be safe to allow their small children 'play with it' - even if that involved submersing it in water or poking metal skewers through small holes in its casing.

Kind Regards, John

Exactly my thoughts.


except if the device contained a high current supply of some sort such as a lead acid battery, I'd hate to think of the sparks and molten metal etc.

 

[winston1]

Just because you know all the correct terms for everything and think that you use them and only them it does not mean that everyone else does.
They will use whatever terms they know and as long as the message is understood then the whole point of it is achieved, there is no need to tell them that they are wrong
about something they said while trying to explain an issue, especially as it ALWAYS brings about a different discussion on the thread.

Telling them they are wrong all helps in their knowledge.
I expect other members to back me up not go around saying pendant or worse.

 

[sparkwright]

There is a danger in telling people too much though, it can confuse them, or create an 'information overload'.

Or if the people in question are already a bit clued up, it can actually patronise them.

There is a lot of wrong terminology used in this trade, and often I will deliberately use the wrong terminology to certain people if I think they will understand it better.

I refuse to use words like 'line' instead of 'live' to various people as it's either going to baffle them or worse still, annoy them.