Eh? Why do you think that's unrealistic?But not one to which it may be subjected and Mr. Public rightfully may expect.
Eh? Why do you think that's unrealistic?But not one to which it may be subjected and Mr. Public rightfully may expect.
Don't be ridiculous.No, it wasn't, but it was close.Yes, but that wasn't a claim that BS 1363 says that a twin socket must not be able to cope with 26A, was it.
But not at a current of 13A from one side of a twin when 13A is also going through the other side.But it does require each socket0outlet to meet certain performance requirements at a current of 13A, regardless of what is in the vicinity.nowhere does it require anything of a twin socket above 14+6A
So there can't be anything about a twin socket being able to supply 26A.So?Nowhere in the standard does the number 26 appear, apart from paragraph, figure and page numbers.
OK.No, that is a test condition.14+6A is the only "normal use" which the standard requires a twin socket to manage without attaining excessive temperatures
Did I say that it did?How on earth does that become close, or even vaguely near, to being a claim that BS 1363 forbids a twin socket to cope with 26A?
Where did I say or imply that?I think the sudden warm weather might have disturbed your thought processes if you believe that BS 1363 says that a twin socket must not be able to cope with 26A
It makes no mention of what is "going through the other side". They are both still 13A socket-outlets.But not at a current of 13A from one side of a twin when 13A is also going through the other side.
Why should there be? 2 x 13 = 26.So there can't be anything about a twin socket being able to supply 26A.
Not correct. It must not exceed certain temperatures during a specific test. That is considered sufficient to verify that the requirement of 16.1 "Socket-outlets and their surroundings shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use".To comply with BS 1363 a twin socket only has to stay below a certain temperature when supplying 14A+6A.
Correct, but it is a requirement of BS1363.you have no way of knowing whether it will undergo an acceptable temperature rise, or an unacceptable one, when it supplies 26A because that performance is not required to be tested by BS 1363
All 13A socket-outlets are tested at 100% of their rating. It is only the combination of two on a common faceplate that is not tested at the maximum rating for that combination. A bit like diversity.What else can you buy which states one figure but is only tested to, or has to not overheat, at 77% of that rating?
Only tested for one of its parameters at 155 mph, yes.Or a bit like a 200mph Ferrari only tested to 155.
Yes:Did I say that it did?How on earth does that become close, or even vaguely near, to being a claim that BS 1363 forbids a twin socket to cope with 26A?
No, it wasn't, but it was close.Yes, but that wasn't a claim that BS 1363 says that a twin socket must not be able to cope with 26A, was it.
Apologies - you didn't.Where did I say or imply that?I think the sudden warm weather might have disturbed your thought processes if you believe that BS 1363 says that a twin socket must not be able to cope with 26A
They are never, ever, EVER required to withstand 13A through each simultaneously without overheating. If a standard says "it must pass 20A without overheating", and does not say "it must pass 26A without overheating", what makes you say that a twin socket which conforms to the standard must be able to pass 26A?It makes no mention of what is "going through the other side". They are both still 13A socket-outlets.
Because a twin socket is not required to have the ability to pass 2 x 13A. If it is not required to have that ability then there can be no guarantee that any particular one does have that ability.Why should there be? 2 x 13 = 26.
And that test is 14A+6A.Not correct. It must not exceed certain temperatures during a specific test.To comply with BS 1363 a twin socket only has to stay below a certain temperature when supplying 14A+6A.
"Normal use" is undefined.That is considered sufficient to verify that the requirement of 16.1 "Socket-outlets and their surroundings shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use".
No it isn't.Correct, but it is a requirement of BS1363.
What kind of logic says that "if it doesn't get too hot at 20A it will therefore not get too hot at 26A"?All 13A socket-outlets are tested at 100% of their rating. It is only the combination of two on a common faceplate that is not tested at the maximum rating for that combination. A bit like diversity.
Yes they are. They are 13A socket-outlets. There are two of them. The standard does not state "it must pass 20A without overheating", it states that socket-outlets shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use, and adds a test at 20A for between 4 and 8 hours during which parts of the socket-outlet shall not exceed specified temperatures. Don't confuse the requirements of the standard with the test specifications - not every requirement is fully tested.They are never, ever, EVER required to withstand 13A through each simultaneously without overheating. If a standard says "it must pass 20A without overheating", and does not say "it must pass 26A without overheating", what makes you say that a twin socket which conforms to the standard must be able to pass 26A?
So why aren't they called twin 10A socket-outlets then? Or 14+6A socket-outlets?Because a twin socket is not required to have the ability to pass 2 x 13A.
IHNI, I'm not a member of PEL/23. Perhaps 14 + 6A for 4 - 8 hours is intended to represent normal use? Perhaps the EUT would take longer than 8 hours to reach thermal equilibrium if loaded at 26A? (This is quite important when considering test house fees)."Normal use" is undefined.
If what you claim were true, why on earth would there ever need to be all of the test loadings outlined in Table 5 of 16.1.3? Why not just require a test at 13A per outlet?
Oh yes it is! They are 13A socket-outlets, and shall carry 13A.No it isn't.
No they are not.Yes they are.
And don't you confuse my quite-probably-informal terminology with not actually meaning what you know full well it means.They are 13A socket-outlets. There are two of them. The standard does not state "it must pass 20A without overheating", it states that socket-outlets shall not attain excessive temperatures in normal use, and adds a test at 20A for between 4 and 8 hours during which parts of the socket-outlet shall not exceed specified temperatures. Don't confuse the requirements of the standard with the test specifications - not every requirement is fully tested.
I don't know. Maybe because they are designed to accept BS 1363 plugs fused at a maximum of 13A.So why aren't they called twin 10A socket-outlets then? Or 14+6A socket-outlets?
Fair enough. So in that case, applying normal common sense, what makes you think that because a twin socket has to be OK at a total load of 20A it must therefore be OK at a total load of 30% more than that even though the standard imposes no requirements for performance at, and specifies no tests to be carried out at, that higher loading?IHNI, I'm not a member of PEL/23.
Dear God...Perhaps 14 + 6A for 4 - 8 hours is intended to represent normal use?
No, that is a test condition.14+6A is the only "normal use" which the standard requires a twin socket to manage without attaining excessive temperatures
Perhaps it would. We have no way of knowing, because that test is not required.Perhaps the EUT would take longer than 8 hours to reach thermal equilibrium if loaded at 26A? (This is quite important when considering test house fees).
If you believe they are then please show me where in BS 1363 it says that in order to comply with the standard a twin socket has to be able to do that on both its outlets at the same time.Oh yes it is! They are 13A socket-outlets, and shall carry 13A.
And also, in case you have forgotten, no shared internal components whatsoever. So in no way the same as a twin socket.OOI, what do you consider to be the maximum long-term current rating of two single socket-outlets side by side in a dual back box? Slightly more surface area to dissipate heat, but also a second set of supply terminals.
It says they are 13A sockets.No they are not.
If you believe they are then please show me where in BS 1363 it says that in order to comply with the standard they have to be able to do that.
It is different. The test has a time factor included, your statement "it must pass 20A without overheating" does not. Can you not understand that something can be OK at a current of x amps for a short time, but can only withstand y amps for a longer time?Maybe you think it is clever, or useful, to say that having to pass "a test at 20A for between 4 and 8 hours during which parts of the socket-outlet shall not exceed specified temperatures" is not the same as "it must pass 20A without overheating"
That is correct, but each of the sockets shall meet certain performance requirements at 13A.The fact is that to comply with BS 1363 a twin socket does not have to pass any test, for any performance or behaviour, where it is loaded at 13A+13A.
Good point, I'd overlooked that. So much for the suggestion that is sometimes made on this forum that two single sockets is a better arrangement for two adjacent high-current appliances than a twin.BS 1363 does not require a single socket to remain at an acceptable temperature with the supply cable carrying more than 20A.
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