20 MPH speed limits, legal or not?

[Diver Fred]

Sometimes it just isn't possible to get a speed reduction means in place. A road near to me has 4 'blind' entrances, the exits in just over a distance of 200Mtrs. Bottom of a hill. 5 accidents with cars coming off the road into drives and ditches. The last Local council won't support a speed reduction even though all the residents want one.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'd like to see a sign board a distance after a section of road that has an Average Speed camera system place that posts up the Reg.No. and speed of any offending cars / lorries* / bikes. That might actually have some effect on slowing some drivers down! It would also re-assure us that try to follow the speed limits that something will be done about the speeders. Effectively 'Name n Shame'.

I would like to see more use of cameras, on lower speed built up areas and I would like them to be somehow mobile. When I used to do a lot of driving, I would many times see mobile speed van traps in other towns and cities, but I have never, ever seen one ever in the village, towns and cities where I actually live.

I am aware of a few fixed cameras, but a high proportion of those are no longer maintained.

 

[JP_]

if you're not in favour of reducing speed limits everywhere, where ARE you in favour of reducing them?

Certainly close to all schools, and where children are likely to be crossing. eg my local road is 30mph, but they are about to build 400 homes opposite, which means suddenly hundreds (potentially) of children will be crossing the road in years to come - at the moment there are very few people crossing as no houses on that side. Without lowering the speed limit (and properly controlling it) it would be a dangerous road.

Some high street areas could do with reduction too, just to try to slow down the idiots that don't care. Most people drive sensibly and do about 20mph anyway when driving along a road with pedestrians each side, but not all.

20mph can also make some residential streets safer, especially where kids play out, and quieter too. In my experience, locals are far more likely to complain when people passing through exceed the 20mph limit, than actually object to the lower speed limit.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Certainly close to all schools, and where children are likely to be crossing. eg my local road is 30mph, but they are about to build 400 homes opposite, which means suddenly hundreds (potentially) of children will be crossing the road in years to come - at the moment there are very few people crossing as no houses on that side. Without lowering the speed limit (and properly controlling it) it would be a dangerous road.

Near here, on what used to be a 50 limit road, they built a primary school about 40 years ago. Opposite the school they have now built around 400 homes. Over the years they gradually reduced the speed to 20mph, but one of the problems is parents who live further away parking and causing chaos a school times.

Some high street areas could do with reduction too, just to try to slow down the idiots that don't care. Most people drive sensibly and do about 20mph anyway when driving along a road with pedestrians each side, but not all.

Speed limits would be entirely unnecessary, if only everyone drove at a sensible speed for the conditions - problem is, not many show much sense at all when they get behind the wheel.

20mph can also make some residential streets safer, especially where kids play out, and quieter too. In my experience, locals are far more likely to complain when people passing through exceed the 20mph limit, than actually object to the lower speed limit.

True, but I don't agree that many care enough to complain. I once tried to tackle the speeding problems along our street. The one doing much of the complaining would not support a complaint of speeding, unless I supported them for tighter parking restrictions along the street. We already had a lunchtime restriction, to stop the all day parkers from a local station, but they wanted an all day ban.

 

[JP_]

We already had a lunchtime restriction, to stop the all day parkers from a local station, but they wanted an all day ban.

On my old road they had permits only, as it was so close to town, but even those were only valid during the day. At 6pm it was a free-for-all.
I think that road is a 20mph now too. Officially a 2 way road, but you an only ever drive one car down at a time, and hardly anywhere to pull over to give way either. Typical urban street.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

At 6pm it was a free-for-all.
I think that road is a 20mph now too. Officially a 2 way road, but you an only ever drive one car down at a time, and hardly anywhere to pull over to give way either. Typical urban street.

No such problems here, the only issue was drivers parking up for the day whilst commuting on the train to work. The parking gradually spread out from the station, causing those near the station the worst problems, when they were blocked in their drives. Yellow lines, only in operation around midday, fixed that issue at a stroke.

 

[Avocet]

No I consistently drive at 20 throughout the area of the 20 limit, as do many others - it's the exceptions which cause the issues.

So you're happy to drive at higher speeds past other peoples' houses?

 

[Avocet]

I'd like to see a sign board a distance after a section of road that has an Average Speed camera system place that posts up the Reg.No. and speed of any offending cars / lorries* / bikes. That might actually have some effect on slowing some drivers down! It would also re-assure us that try to follow the speed limits that something will be done about the speeders. Effectively 'Name n Shame'.

I think they used to do that on the M25 for a while? Not sure it made any difference though. In fact, I could see it might even be a badge of honour for some!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So you're happy to drive at higher speeds past other peoples' houses?

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

[Avocet]

Sometimes it just isn't possible to get a speed reduction means in place. A road near to me has 4 'blind' entrances, the exits in just over a distance of 200Mtrs. Bottom of a hill. 5 accidents with cars coming off the road into drives and ditches. The last Local council won't support a speed reduction even though all the residents want one.

Good for them! So often, you get spineless councillors, browbeaten into submission by a local politician, eager to secure a few more votes from the "something MUST be done" brigade. I live in a rural area and some years ago, we had a several mile stretch of single track (National Speed Limit) road reduced to 40. At the time, there were many against it (including the police). It wasn't really a road you could do more than about 40 on, in any case. Other than despoiling several miles of Cumbrian countryside with speed limit signs and the obligatory repeaters, I don't think it has made a blind bit of difference to the average speeds along that stretch of road, nor am I aware of any prosecutions.

The starting point for your campaign should surely be an investigation into whether any of the vehicles that came off the road were exceeding the existing speed limit, and how many that are not exceeding the speed limit, make it round OK.

 

[Avocet]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Because when I asked the question, you began your response by saying "no"!

 

[Avocet]

Certainly close to all schools, and where children are likely to be crossing. eg my local road is 30mph, but they are about to build 400 homes opposite, which means suddenly hundreds (potentially) of children will be crossing the road in years to come - at the moment there are very few people crossing as no houses on that side. Without lowering the speed limit (and properly controlling it) it would be a dangerous road.

Some high street areas could do with reduction too, just to try to slow down the idiots that don't care. Most people drive sensibly and do about 20mph anyway when driving along a road with pedestrians each side, but not all.

20mph can also make some residential streets safer, especially where kids play out, and quieter too. In my experience, locals are far more likely to complain when people passing through exceed the 20mph limit, than actually object to the lower speed limit.

I'm happy to see limits reduced near schools when children are likely to be present. If we're so enthusiastic about automated speed limit enforcement, it's very easy to arrange for the cameras to be enabled at the necessary times and disabled otherwise. Frankly, I don't think it would help much, but I wouldn't object to it.
20 MPH limits are often popular with people who live on the street concerned, but the same people are quite likely to be opposed to similar limits on similar streets that they don't live on.
Statistically, these "community speed watch" type groups end up mainly catching local residents!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Because when I asked the question, you began your response by saying "no"!

You twisted my words, to suite yourself. Just to be clear - I stick rigorously to within the limits everywhere I go.

 

[Avocet]

You twisted my words, to suite yourself. Just to be clear - I stick rigorously to within the limits everywhere I go.

No, those were your words. You chose them. I read them. Please don't start slinging accusations around if you can't express yourself clearly.

You still haven't answered either of my questions. One might almost suspect you had some reason for doing so...

Telling me that you comply with speed limits is a "given". Why are you so reluctant to answer the question?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I'm getting to the stage where, if the rules were applied to everyone (e.g. technical application that didn't leave it down to individual choice) it wouldn't bother me if vehicles were speed limited and forced to stay x distance apart dependent on speed. Muppets darting about right left and centre, often too quickly for the surroundings they're in. Folk tailgating whether intentional or otherwise.

The unfortunate thing at present is, it's down to the individual if they want to comply or not ... and many don't. So yeah, technical enforcement (for all) wouldn't bother me now. It's coming anyway, albeit gradually.