2amp and 5amp plugs and sockets

[SUNRAY]

I see not problem with 2, 5, and 15 amp plugs as power outlets, and there is no reason why they should not be remotely switched. In my hall I have a 4 gang switch with 3 switches being supplied with the entrance floor lighting and one supplied with upstairs lighting supply, and in the same way there is no reason why a switch plate should not switch ceiling lights and sockets from independent supplies.
Indeed there is no reason at all that multiple supplies cannot be used to a device, and why a remotely switched radial can't be installed. I've very frequently worked on grid plates with multiple 6. 10 or 16A lighting circuits.
I hadn't realised this had been your comment earlier. Equally there is no limit to the number of lighting circuits that can be installed in a property. (I once worked in a large property that had a separate 15A ring final for every room and 5A circuit for every light fitting - up to 3 to a room)

My parents house had one 15 amp socket on a radial that powered the immersion heater, since there is not fuse in the plug they run cool far better idea in an airing cupboard which in spite of name does not have much air movement.

Very common. In my experience the contact resistance of 546's have always been lower than 1363's so will run cooler regardless of the presence of a fuse.

I think the BA22d plug goes back to time with lighting electric and power electric were on separate meters with lighting electric being cheaper, it was at that time a criminal offence to use a lighting supply for power.

Splitters, often with one switched were common when I was a lad, be it an iron or a child's night light, and with rewireable fuses may be rated 2 amp but often far more is drawn.

I don't know if the light/power supplies ever existed as a DNO thing, certainly is the case in privately metered services - student accomodation springs to mind here.
My understanding of the situation -(and minimal experience) was that metered lighting circuits (but not socket circuits) were installed in council houses with tiny fuses in the cut out. A friend lived in a terrace of something like 20-30 houses fed with 30A on 7/0.036 cotton/rubber singles clipped along the front elevation looping in and out of each outside mounted cut out about the size of a double depth Besabox. The only way they they could power anything was from a B22 holder. The fuse in the cast iron box at the end of the row was repaired on a regular basis by the tenants and a coil of fusewire/screwdriver lived in the fuse box and step ladder below it.

When working in Hong Kong I bought many items with the 2, 5, and 15 amp plugs, and had extension leads which allowed me to use any in the 13 amp outlets,

these were common and had a BS number on them, not sure how as never seemed to be shuttered on the 3 pin outlet, however often the 2 pin outlets were shuttered. So I still have items not often used with 5 and 15 amp plugs on them.
I have a selection of adapters and adapter cables between pretty much all connectors (I haven't touched any 2A for many years so may have none left, I think) and I have the ability to convert between 128A and 5A without additional fusing. As such it all needs to be managed very carefully

The problem as I see it, is a 5 or 15 amp socket could be independent of lights, or supplied from lights and the user will not know which, with a lighting plug like the klik it is plain they are for lighting, same goes for a BA22d of course, but unless plainly marked lighting only 2, 5, and 15 amp could be lighting only or independent from lights.

Interesting comment about the Klik system. I have installed many of them (hundreds) but never a single one of them has ever been for lighting.

Even after fitting a new consumer unit I had not worked out what all the 16 ways from the consumer unit fed, once I could switch them I did go around the house to work it all out, I was in the house 4 months before I realised the outside lights on the flat were switched from the main house hall and were on the mid level lighting circuit.

Another common problem, I changed the selection of fuse boxes for a CU not long after we moved in, then DNO wrecked it by stripping most of the screw heads when I complained of over voltage and things failing. Some five or more years later I discovered the damage and had to replace, this time with a split load/single RCD CU. I knew every circuit, or so I thought. Until I altered the bathroom and fitted a RCBO on upstairs light circuit and found I had not one but three borrowed neutrals and a horrible choc bloc joint with half a dozen cables in an inaccessible place.

It was all well and good with previous houses, we moved in when new, so we were told what each switch did, this house when I moved in there were three FCU's just for central heating and circulation pump was on a 13A plug.

So my point is a 2, 5, or 15 amp socket are traditionally for power, and should not be used for lighting unless very plainly marked. I can find grid switches clearly engraved washer, fridge etc. But not 5 amp sockets.

Can always get them engraved.

The old clock sockets were what I used, but now they cost a fortune, of course you can't stop idiots

but you can make it so they realise when the outlet is designed for some thing special. Likely that cable supplies speakers, but how do you know?

 

[ericmark]

Some five or more years later I discovered the damage and had to replace, this time with a split load/single RCD CU. I knew every circuit, or so I thought. Until I altered the bathroom and fitted a RCBO on upstairs light circuit and found I had not one but three borrowed neutrals and a horrible choc bloc joint with half a dozen cables in an inaccessible place.

I could not believe how many faults I have found, it is if the last owners ran out of money and no faults were ever corrected. Lucky I have a son who swapped the CU for me, so I am just doing the little bits, called borrowed neutral but really just wrong line. Lucky I went for all RCBO for all circuits, so at least one fault does not trip other circuits.

In my case not a choc bloc in inaccessible place, but whole fuse box, I saw a reasonable new consumer unit in the granny flat under the main house but switching all off did not isolated house, fuse box between original ceiling and new false ceiling clearly put in when garage made into granny flat. Just enough room to switch isolator.

However I have used remote controlled plug in and built into sockets for standard lamps, so independent to lighting circuits. I have got really lazy in my old age, I turn lights on/off with remote controls. And I could not get those remote controls in round pin versions of plugs and sockets.

 

[SimonH2]

This thread got me curious, so had a look around...
CEF stock a variety of 2A, 5A, and 15A plugs and sockets. I notice that the plugs seem to have sleeved pins, and most of the sockets ate shuttered. A quick search shows that Euromodule sockets are also available - so possible to have 2 sockets on a double faceplate. If the modules could be shaved down a bit then scope for 3 2A sockets on a double plate.
Still the fundamental problem that everything comes with a 13A plug, and lamps still need a 13A plug. Some of us ate lucky enough to have mostly avoided the days of plug roulette - wondering if the (one of several types) plug would the (one of several types) sockets

 

[bernardgreen]

For what it is worth many of my lamps are plugged into 5 Amp sockets and switched by relays control by a processor.

All lamps are individally wired from a bank of relays.

Using relays alllows switches to be ELV ( 12 volt ) and connected by small diameter multicore alarm cable instead of several surface mounted twin and Earth cables runing down walls.

 

[SUNRAY]

Click to expand.

I could not believe how many faults I have found, it is if the last owners ran out of money and no faults were ever corrected. Lucky I have a son who swapped the CU for me, so I am just doing the little bits, called borrowed neutral but really just wrong line. Lucky I went for all RCBO for all circuits, so at least one fault does not trip other circuits.

My first house was built in 1928 (according to vendor, whose father in law built the whole street. according to solicitor it was built in 1891) Originally is only had a lighting circuit. Some was in lead twin (orange & green enamelled conductors and insulated with orange & green varnished paper) and the rest in split tube in the walls with VIR singles. A very eldery neighbour was the vendors electrician who claimed to do all of the additional work after mid 30's when he moved in. He tried to help by explaining the cable routes etc but by then it was all gone and scrapped.
There was a whole variety of cable types and circuit mix-ups but nothing screamed at me.
My current house had a mixed selection of 6 fuse boxes, I've retained the feed to the granny annexe and repurposed the 30A shower fuse to the shed, the rest passed into an 8 way fuse box and now the CU which now has RCBO on most circuits

In my case not a choc bloc in inaccessible place, but whole fuse box, I saw a reasonable new consumer unit in the granny flat under the main house but switching all off did not isolated house, fuse box between original ceiling and new false ceiling clearly put in when garage made into granny flat. Just enough room to switch isolator.

I've struggled to find CU's on so many occassions in ceiling voids, bricked up spaces, under floors, we even traced one into the cupboard under next doors stairs where the CU had 2 main switches fed from the 2 meters in the external box. We suspected that when the wiring was done the 2 properties had been converted into into one and back into 2.
Another property had a nice CU with RCD etc but it didn't isolate all, the original we found by following the new tails and breaking through the concrete floor under the stairs to find the filled in cellar.

However I have used remote controlled plug in and built into sockets for standard lamps, so independent to lighting circuits. I have got really lazy in my old age, I turn lights on/off with remote controls. And I could not get those remote controls in round pin versions of plugs and sockets.

I don't blame you and in those circumstances there is no need to make any specific arrangements for the portable lights.

For what it is worth many of my lamps are plugged into 5 Amp sockets and switched by relays control by a processor.

All lamps are individally wired from a bank of relays.

Using relays alllows switches to be ELV ( 12 volt ) and connected by small diameter multicore alarm cable instead of several surface mounted twin and Earth cables runing down walls.

We elected to use a combination of 24Vac and mains when 'rewiring' a grade 1 listed property where the plaster and original brass switches were sacrosanct, we used SELV to the switches to operate relays rather than disturb the walls. Many of the floor boards were lifted for other works so it wasn't a bad job in the end.

Remote dimmers or contactors (relays) feeding unfused sockets is (well it used to be before LED) the standard way of doing things in theatres and it works perfectly there so I see no reason for it not to be so in domestics.

 

[bernardgreen]

Remote dimmers or contactors

As long as I can get incandescent lamps I will continue to dim pairs of lamps by connecting them in series ( 115 volts per lamp ).

 

[ericmark]

As long as I can get incandescent lamps I will continue to dim pairs of lamps by connecting them in series ( 115 volts per lamp ).

I have so many incandescent bulbs, new and old, standard pearl, and quartz, and I don't use them any more, as yet not gone in the bin, but I think they must go there.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have so many incandescent bulbs, new and old, standard pearl, and quartz, and I don't use them any more, as yet not gone in the bin, but I think they must go there.

I'll never get rid of real bulbs, to date there is nothing to replace everything they are useful for.

 

[SUNRAY]

A quick search shows that Euromodule sockets are also available - so possible to have 2 sockets on a double faceplate.

Right on cue I found the attached in a hotel where it seems very confused, various combinations of Euromodules on a 16A circuit.
To add to the confusion there are also 5A sockets controlled by switches for lighting.

 

[AndyPRK]

I'll never get rid of real bulbs, to date there is nothing to replace everything they are useful for.

2 years ago I would agree.

But for 2 years I have been using energizer LED units.
These are brighter than the eqivalant incandacent bulb.
Give a nice warm light.
And instant on (being LED)

There are no downsides that I can see.

Avilable in GLS, candle. shaver strip light, GU10, flourcent replacement e.g 6ft

I would recommend minisun for G4 or G9 things

 

[plugwash]

Right on cue I found the attached in a hotel where it seems very confused, various combinations of Euromodules on a 16A circuit.

I can understand the Schukos, handy for visitors from continental Europe and presumablly cuts down on the use of dodgy travel adapters. The 5A BS546 does seem rather strange though unless they get a lot of visitors from india or something.

On a different note I presume 15A BS546 is too big to fit on a euro module.
Seems I was wrong, scolmore do make a 15A Euro module.

 

[SimonH2]

The 5A BS546 does seem rather strange though ...

Lights ? Probably for bedside lights or something like that - allows free-standing lights, switched by wall or bedhead switches, but users can plug the hair drier into a lighting circuit.

 

[SUNRAY]

Lights ? Probably for bedside lights or something like that - allows free-standing lights, switched by wall or bedhead switches, but users can plug the hair drier into a lighting circuit.

To add to the confusion there are also 5A sockets controlled by switches for lighting.

There are 3 plates making 3x13A, 2xshuko & 1x5A for power on a single pole MCB, plus 4 single plates with 5A sockets for the lighting controlled by a total of 4 switches for the main lights and 2 for bedside lights on a 3A mcb.
Plus one further permanent 13A socket on a 6A MCB (Sorry Winston) for the fridge.

This was in Gibralta.

 

[IJWS15]

Isn't the new one the std Swiss plug..

Have been and is a stupid design. Triple sockets arranged in a circle on one faceplate so you can't fit two larger rated plugs at the same time - unless you force them or you use a lower rates plug. ....

Have two plugs ready to make up extensions with uk sockets as we are going back in May.