5amp Lighting Down

[dk1uk]

Hi all

A bit of a frustrating end to the day.

I have changed the light sockets and swtiches to nice shiny chrome ones. All OK, except the living room...I have 4 x 5amp light sockets (the ones with the round pins).

They all worked this morning, but now that I've changed them for the chrome sockets, they don't work anymore. The only thing different that I did was to add an earth from the metal back box to the socket's face plate. Now, I face darkness this evening!

Have I missed something??

Many thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would think you have not terminated one of the conductors properly.

It may have come out or snapped off or the screw is gripping the insulation.

As none of them is working I would think it is at the first one on the circuit if you can tell which one that is.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The only thing different that I did was to add an earth from the metal back box to the socket's face plate.

That's not true is it?

I have changed the light sockets and swtiches to nice shiny chrome ones.

Likely is you have either a loose connection at switch plate or the conductor has not terminated correctly within the terminal, maybe insulation preventing good contact.

 

[dk1uk]

OK, so I have checked all four sockets carefully and there are no loose connections (except for an earth which I've now tightened) and no snagging on the insulation.

Unlikely my previous house, there's no light-switch on the wall controlling the lights plugged into the 5amp sockets. The other thing I did change was the light-switch controlling the ceiling down-lights (replacing a dimmer switch with a normal switch) - but the two circuits wouldn't be linked would they?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Are they on the same fuse or mcb?

 

[dk1uk]

I'm not sure how to tell? But all are showing as 'on'.

 

[dk1uk]

Damn, the down-lights in the living room have stopped working now. They worked before and after I checked the 5amp circuit. Everything on the circuit box still says 'on'.

I changed the light-switch for the down-lights from a dimmer to a normal switch - have I potentially blown the transformers?

Should have stuck with the plastic light switches

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So your downlights are connected to transformers?
You have removed old fittings (I assume that is what you mean by light sockets) for new.
Did the fittings have the same lamps and lampholders as the old ones?
You are confusing me by saying you have changed switch but then contradict this by saying there's no switch but a 5A socket?
Some clarity to what you have please!

 

[dk1uk]

OK, so I have two issues now:

Problem 1. I think I know why the down-lights don't work anymore. In the dining room next door, I removed the ceiling light (I have a plasterer coming tomorrow to skim the ceiling). In doing so, I think I've broken the circuit which explains why the down-lights in the room next door don't work. I now have three cables coming out of the ceiling in the dining room. The three earth wires are joined in a choc block as they were when connected to the light. The three live wires are joined in a choc block as they were when connected to the light. None of the three neutral wires are connected to each other - this is why the down-lights in the living room don't work anymore isn't it?


Problem 2. The 5amp circuit in the living room still doesn't work. This is what I have done in the living room today: a) Replaced the light-switch on the wall that controls the down-lights. It was a 2 gang dimmer switch controlling two sets of down-lights in the room, now replaced with a 2 gang normal light-switch. b) Replaced all plug sockets with chrome ones. c) Replaced the 4 x 5amp plug sockets with chrome ones.

The living room down-lights are the 12v 50w type - so I am assuming that there are transformers sat above the ceiling. I haven't touched the down-lights themselves - only replaced the light-switch on the wall that controls them.

There is no wall-mounted light-switch for the 5amp sockets. In my last house, you could flick a switch on the wall and all of the table-lamps plugged into the 5amp sockets would come on. In my current house, you just plug the table-lamps into the sockets and manual walk around the room turning the lamps on.

Sorry to have caused confusion in my previous post - I hope the above clarifies where I'm at?

Thank you for your patience.

 

[Lectrician]

You must have a loose connection or the terminal is biting on the insulation on one of the accessories.

The 5amp sockets could also be fed from the lighting circuit which you have no open circuited due to removing the light fitting.

You have energised a dangerous circuit leaving the cables poking out from the ceiling. You don't have three neutrals there either, you have two neutrals and one switched live.

You may possibly be able to swap the two gang switch for a three gang to switch the 5amp sockets, depending on how it's wired. Photos?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Problem1
None of the three neutral wires are connected to each other - this is why the down-lights in the living room don't work anymore isn't it?

Yes that would be why, but one is switch live

Problem 2. The 5amp circuit in the living room still doesn't work. This is what I have done in the living room today: a) Replaced the light-switch on the wall that controls the down-lights. It was a 2 gang dimmer switch controlling two sets of down-lights in the room, now replaced with a 2 gang normal light-switch. b) Replaced all plug sockets with chrome ones. c) Replaced the 4 x 5amp plug sockets with chrome ones.

Right, I am with you now!

The living room down-lights are the 12v 50w type - so I am assuming that there are transformers sat above the ceiling. I haven't touched the down-lights themselves - only replaced the light-switch on the wall that controls them.

I suggest you get a mulit-meter, you need to test for continuity and voltage, if you are saying there is no broken contacts.
Is there a possibly that you may have at some staged energised the circuit without the connection being correct and therefore damaging the transformers?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

edit duplicate post

 

[dk1uk]

Thank you.

Problem 1: So I have two two neutrals and one switch live - which ones do I need to connect to each other to make the circuit again? And whilst I agree it's not safe leaving the cables hanging out of the ceiling, presumably, it's only unsafe if someone touches the cables - they are pretty high up and the light-fitting will be wired in again tomorrow afternoon (if I can figure out what to do with the black wires!) I haven't caused a fire risk etc. have I? Hopefully, if I make the circuit again, the down-lights will come back to life - I can't think that I energised the circuit and damaged the transformers - I'm sure it's just that I've broken the circuit in the dining room.

Problem 2: Regarding the 5amp circuit, perhaps it does run off the lighting circuit. It definitely worked before I changed the light-switch so maybe that's the cause of my problem? I can't take a picture of the new light-switch wiring now as obviously it's dark outside and the previous home owners didn't label the circuits, so I've been working today by shutting the whole power down. However, here's a photo of the original and new light-switches (the bigger one is the old dimmer that I've replaced). I also have a picture of the old light-switch wiring from this afternoon. I replicated the wiring exactly.

Untitled

• dk1uk
• 7 Oct 2012
• 1

Untitled

• dk1uk
• 7 Oct 2012
• 2

Is it possible that my new light-switch (or my wiring within) has knocked out my 5amp circuit?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Problem 1: So I have two two neutrals and one switch live - which ones do I need to connect to each other to make the circuit again?

Does one not have a flag,mark sleeve on it to iD it? Because it should, did you not note down what went where? If not you need an approved voltage indicator, when switch is closed (on) the switch live will be live, when switch is open (off) it will be dead.

And whilst I agree it's not safe leaving the cables hanging out of the ceiling, presumably, it's only unsafe if someone touches the cables - they are pretty high up and the light-fitting will be wired in again tomorrow afternoon (if I can figure out what to do with the black wires!) I haven't caused a fire risk etc. have I? Hopefully, if I make the circuit again, the down-lights will come back to life - I can't think that I energised the circuit and damaged the transformers - I'm sure it's just that I've broken the circuit in the dining room.

Should have still left it safe, at least in a connection block, no excuses for unsafe procedures when dealing with electrics.

Is it possible that my new light-switch (or my wiring within) has knocked out my 5amp circuit?

Have you checked the fuse?
Which side of the original switch is causing the problem?
What are the blues and yellows doing?

 

[dk1uk]

No, there's nothing to ID the switch live - just three black wires, all exactly the same. I'll get a voltage indicator as you suggest.

Yes, no worries - there are no actual bare wires, everything is in connection blocks - I wouldn't want to injure/kill the plasterer. I was more concerned that certain wires not being connected to each other could short-circuit and cause a problem/fire.

Regarding the 5amp - sorry to ask, but how do I actually check the fuse?