A form of Democracy?

[Sparky Jim]

Tat comment about Intelligence was directed at the inane and childish attacks certain posters have entered into in this thread, and I note that a certain poster has launched into such attacks in other threads, they obviously think they are funny, I personally think they are simply sad.

Regarding your question about my thoughts. I agree that the idea of a decentralised political system, where the MP representing a given area is a person who lives in that community, so they understand what that community truly needs and desires, and are answerable to the people of that community is a good one. I can see that set up correctly, this is a far better system than we currently have. However there are aspects were I would not agree with FWL_Engineer, whilst the MP's need to be accountable, this idead of X percentage being able to force them out of office I am uncomfortable with, that would, in my opinion, be a route that some could take to undermine the political system for their own benefit, or simply to cause mischief. I would also not be in favour of the fining of those who shoose not to vote in an election, but I do agree with mandatory voting, not sure about the age drop to 16 though. Some panned the idea of the fines for the wrong reasons, they stated that there would need to be a way for the Government to trace voters from their ballot papers to do this, well they already can, how else do you think they confirmed how people voted in Birmingham and managed to prove there was fraud on a massive scale?

Adding the abstantion vote to a ballot paper is a good idea, that way if people do not wish to vote for anyone in their area, they can simply abstain, at least then we could see what this figure was and determine what could be done to correct that problem and re-engage the public in the political process. I like the idea of the funding of Politics, cutting big business out of the loop would be a positive step to reducing actual or seeming undue influence at best, and corruption at worst. It would take some working out so ensure it was fair and above board, but it has the potential, if implemented, to be far superior to our existing system of funding.

Personally I take the original post by FWL_Engineer as a topic for discussion, not some manifesto for world domination as some appear to have taken it, it is far from perfect and could never be implemented in the way he has posted it, but no political system has ever been resolved first time, it takes discussion and trial and error, some members really need to chill out and take a step back before posting, and I really do not understand the personal attacks.

 

[Freddie]

Sparky Jim------Please explain what and who you refer too on the inane and childish attacks you refer too and who you think is childish and whose comments are simply sad???????????

 

[Sparky Jim]

Freddie, I do not see that such discussion would achieve anything and would only take this topic off subject again. I am sure that a number of posters may have looked at a handful of their posts and thought that perhaps they could have worded their replies differently, but that is life really.

 

[Big_Spark]

Hmmmm, perhaps he speaks of some of my replies, he does have a point about some of the posts some of us have left, it did get somewhat daft at one point.

 

[Freddie]

Well i hope he isnt having a dig at me for quiping at you engineer because of the European thread, and Sparky jim if you dont think a discussion on it would be of any use why make such an effort to make such a point????


I'm out of here it's too much for a sunday morning

 

[Damocles]

Yep Freddie, all we have to do is form a similar pact to Nato, only one which works rather better and deals with trade as well as just invasion. Trade is a lot more dangerous than guns. But we already did this. It is called the EU.

I am not at all anti-American. It is one of the safest places in the world, has similar views to ourselves and does a lot to make the world run to our advantage. But absolutely never make the mistake of thinking that any state exists for any reason except to protect, preserve and enlarge itself.

It is only with the greatest of difficulty that a set of competing states can manage to protect, preserve and enlarge themselves except at the expense of their neighbours. This is exactly what has been happening in this continent for thousands of years. There is no wilderness left here, nowhere else to tame and expand. We have a choice of living together and cooperating to grow rich together, or blowing each other to pieces again trying to steal from each other.

I think it was an interview with a senior member of the curent or recent American government. I don't remember now who. America has its own idea about which UN vetos are non-negotiable and which are a pain is the arse.

The abstention vote is an especially good idea if a majority of votes for 'abstain' means the election is void and has to be run again with new candidates.

 

[pipme]

Europe -- Pact -- I'll bet, and I bet the whole thing would collapse in the event of serious trouble .. Spain and terror !! They do not all have the stomach for it .. tried tested and failed !!
P

 

[Freddie]

Damocles the pact you are talking about was the Common Market the EU thing you are talking about is the farce of forming some loony superstate without asking the people concerned, and as Pipme has said, it becomes a farce when the yellow bellies chicken out at the first sign of a scuffle

 

[Damocles]

We are talking about the spaniards who never wanted to join in the Iraq war, fought an election on a ticket of withdrawing from it, and having won did what they had promised in their manifesto?

It is also not at all clear why we joined this war against the wishes of the british population and very possibly against the wishes of the majority of MPs, who however were coerced one way or another into agreeing to it.

The population of the EU as a whole was heavily in favour of staying out of it and very probably the populations of every country individually were also all against it.

 

[david and julie]

The population of the EU as a whole was heavily in favour of staying out of it and very probably the populations of every country individually were also all against it.

More assumptions being presented as fact Damocles? You don't know for certain what any individual memberstates felt about war in Iraq, because they weren't asked. Why should the EU consult their paymasters about this when they didn't even consult us about their own existence in the first place?

All Iraq did was prove that when the chips are down there is no unity within the EU.

 

[Freddie]

We are talking about the spaniards who never wanted to join in the Iraq war, fought an election on a ticket of withdrawing from it, and having won did what they had promised in their manifesto?

It is also not at all clear why we joined this war against the wishes of the british population and very possibly against the wishes of the majority of MPs, who however were coerced one way or another into agreeing to it.

The population of the EU as a whole was heavily in favour of staying out of it and very probably the populations of every country individually were also all against it.

Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq Iraq????????????????????????

It was a terrorist attack on Spain by a group who used Iraq as there excuse to kill innocent people, so Spain gave in to the terrorists straight away by doing what they wanted, the then goverment even tried to blame someone else

 

[Damocles]

You are saying Freddie that a democratically elected government should change its long term held policy, supported by a majority in a recent election, because of the actions of terrorists?

No one should change their own actions because of those of terrorists. That is the only proper response.

The previous spanish government was very properly punished by the spanish electorate for getting them into a war which was absolutely nothing to do with spain.

It rather proved that the whole of Europe was united in opposing the war. Your idea of unity seems to be that europe should do what America wants and ignore the wished of its own people.

 

[Freddie]

Oh no Damocles i believe that a country should do exactly what the wishes are of its people something you do not believe when you say that the EU is the way forward.

But my point was, even thought the people objected to the war quite ruightly so, as soon as the bomb went of the Spanish rushed to give in and say that they would withdraw, which i think sent exactly the wrong message, but even so who wants to be mixed up with a load of people who not only do that but then lay claim to your terrortary aswell ( Gibralta ) and at the same time have had billions of your money to finance there country from the dictatorship third world hovel it was 30 years ago to what it is today, and have had billions in revenue from the tourism we have given them, but now not only sday they want Gibralta but also back Argentina in their claim to the Falklands---some allie and partner, more like two faced back stabbing bastards

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie, I do not support any claim on the Falkland Islands for reason I shall not go into there, but Spain has a LEGITIMATE and legal claim to Gibralter. The people there are daft in many ways, they would almost certainly be better off under Spanish rule that UK rule..I sometimes think WE here would be better off under anyones rule that our Government!! (That is a joke so don't get on your high horse about it)

All I will say is that The ASrgentine have no legal or moral claim to our Islands, they have never been an Argentine possession and have been settled by the British for over 250 years.

 

[Damocles]

The spanish people wanted out before the bomb. The party that won wanted out before the bonb. It was probably not an important election issue until the bomb actually happened. Before that, the previous spanish government was favourite to win on its other policies. The spanish people merely realised that this was in fact a very important issue after all, and that the previous government had been shown to be very very stupid getting into it.

If the same happened here the main opposition could hardly pick up lots of votes because they were also officially in favour of the war.