abu hamsa and cronies sent to america

[AronSearle]

how about all those terror suspects in the future like these cronies get sent there by law to spend their sentence

:notsureiftroll:

 

[captaincaveman1]

not sure what you mean aronsearle

 

[Brigadier]

http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no10/prison.htm

Something to read.

Thanks, Peaps - definitely an interesting read.

But while not defaulting to a "throw away the key" stance (which my questions and points may appear to support),

How much of a career crim's word should we take at face value?
He has repeatedly chosen to risk going back, despite how appalling he claims it to be.
He appears to be uninterested in the harm he may have caused in landing himself back inside; only how he can encourage others to defeat the system. To emerge on the other side, unscathed and unbowed (and, presumably, unchanged).

From what I read, he appears to be a serial recidivist who, once inside, is only interested in standing up for the "rights" of himself and his similarly-incarcerated brethren. He provides a guide on how to "survive" time inside; does this mean he accepts it as an occupational or lifestyle inconvenience? (If he elsewhere posts his regret at his choices that led him to end up banged up, I retract that last assertion).

It appears to me that, if incarceration holds little deterrent for people like the person quoted, and does not alter the behaviour that led them there in the first (or sixteenth, in his case) time, the system ought to be changed. Or failing that, throw away the key, because the law-abiding ought not to be subjected to those who have no regard for their rights
.

 

[peaps]

Thanks, Peaps - definitely an interesting read.

Mark was a political prisoner from an early age.
http://www.anarkismo.net/article/325

But while not defaulting to a "throw away the key" stance (which my questions and points may appear to support),

How much of a career crim's word should we take at face value?

You take out of it what you please, it's a accurate description of how the system works, I've lived it and you will not truly know until you have lived it.

He has repeatedly chosen to risk going back, despite how appalling he claims it to be.

when you get involved in political campaigning and direct action you accept that jail will be part of your life. It's a risk I accepted and expected at some point to sever time in prison. Nothing to do with prison conditions.

He appears to be uninterested in the harm he may have caused in landing himself back inside; only how he can encourage others to defeat the system. To emerge on the other side, unscathed and unbowed (and, presumably, unchanged).

Prison is full of people who do their time fighting the system. In my case I was part of a single issue campaign against vivisection. I for one had no regard for the people I campaigned against.

From what I read, he appears to be a serial recidivist who, once inside, is only interested in standing up for the "rights" of himself and his similarly-incarcerated brethren. He provides a guide on how to "survive" time inside; does this mean he accepts it as an occupational or lifestyle inconvenience? (If he elsewhere posts his regret at his choices that led him to end up banged up, I retract that last assertion).

He is a political activist an anarchist, his fight with the system was inside and out. He was and is a dangerous man, but this isn't about the men/women locked up in our prison system, it's all about how we treat prisoners. Not the holiday camp you think.

It appears to me that, if incarceration holds little deterrent for people like the person quoted, and does not alter the behaviour that led them there in the first (or sixteenth, in his case) time, the system ought to be changed. Or failing that, throw away the key, because the law-abiding ought not to be subjected to those who have no regard for their rights
.

We once locked up gays in this country. We have to be careful about this throw away key mentality.

86% of prisoners offend but most are petty criminals from deprived backgrounds. Mark isn't your normal prisoner.

People have this opinion that prisons are full of people watching dvds in their cells and playing play station games but this is not reality at all.

Most prisoner don't spend long enough in prison to be able to work their way up to having these privileges. Prison is a hard place.

 

[Brigadier]

I don't recall commenting on whether prison was a holiday camp, or not.

While I believe that a portion of one's sentence should be about rehabilitation, if that is disregarded by the prisoner, shouldn't that person be separated from "decent" society? Put very simplistically, keep the baddies away from the goodies?

 

[joinerjohn]

Prison is full of people who do their time fighting the system. In my case I was part of a single issue campaign against vivisection. I for one had no regard for the people I campaigned against.

So, when in prison,,,, Why should the authorities have any regards for yours (or any other prisoners ) human rights?

 

[peaps]

I don't recall commenting on whether prison was a holiday camp, or not.

You didn't no but it's the general theme in this thread.

While I believe that a portion of one's sentence should be about rehabilitation, if that is disregarded by the prisoner, shouldn't that person be separated from "decent" society? Put very simplistically, keep the baddies away from the goodies?

A system is already in place to deal with people who keep re-offend. it's called an IPP sentence, 99 years. They have to prove they are ready to be released.

http://www.offendersfamilieshelpline.org/index.php/life-and-indeterminate-sentences-ipp/

I think it would be better to look at the cause not rely on the prison system to put right what's already gone wrong. Society has it's role to play.

 

[JohnD]

Society has it's role to play.

not forgetting of course, so do the criminals.

Not much Society can do for the ones who are determined to continue committing crimes and say they "accept that jail will be part of your life. It's a risk I accepted and expected at some point to sever time in prison"

 

[hereisthetruth]

Some people are born into a western capitalist society and instead of thinking , ok I was lucky to be born into this society and making the most of it they develop what can only be described as 'spoilt little child' attitudes.

There would be no talk of accepting going to jail as part and parcel of your beliefs if that Jail was in Thailand or Vietnam etc.

You would not even get off the starting blocks with your social conscience either if you had been born into a family in the African Bush in the middle of a drought or famine.

Me I embraced the privilege of being born into a western capitalist society and even did my bit for 6 yrs in the army.

People choosing to do time for reasons of conscience are just 'spoilt brats' who don't have enough of a struggle on to keep a family going or a roof over their heads.

 

[peaps]

Society has it's role to play.

not forgetting of course, so do the criminals.

Not much Society can do for the ones who are determined to continue committing crimes and say they "accept that jail will be part of your life. It's a risk I accepted and expected at some point to sever time in prison"

Like I have said, Mark is a political activist but he hasn't gone back to prison.....

The prison is full of people who have not had the chance to take part in society, many reasons why, and now you see people in prison who's fathers and grandfathers have done their time many times over. It becomes part of life for some kids. We have a sub culture of people who consider prison as part of life, a badge of honour for alot of the younger end coming up now. The cycle needs to be broken and it's society that has a hand to play at breaking it.

johnjoiner and his ilk won't give ex-cons a chance in life so why else do you think they say f ock you...?

 

[JohnD]

We have a sub culture of people who consider prison as part of life

Including yourself, you said earlier

you accept that jail will be part of your life. It's a risk I accepted and expected at some point to sever time in prison.

maybe people who are determined to continue committing crimes haven't earned a second chance.

 

[Brigadier]

"The cycle needs to be broken and it's society that has a hand to play at breaking it."

Isn't "society" about abiding by the rules as well - it can't be acceptable that the laws of the land are optional, otherwise we would have no society at all. The contributor (Mark) sounded intelligent, but he made an adult choice to utterly disregard the law. His. Free. Will.

 

[joinerjohn]

The prison is full of people who have not had the chance to take part in society, many reasons why, and now you see people in prison who's fathers and grandfathers have done their time many times over. It becomes part of life for some kids. We have a sub culture of people who consider prison as part of life, a badge of honour for alot of the younger end coming up now. The cycle needs to be broken and it's society that has a hand to play at breaking it.

johnjoiner and his ilk won't give ex-cons a chance in life so why else do you think they say f ock you...?

By the time people end up in prison, they've usually had at least 16 yrs of a chance to take part in society as you point out.. What else can society do to stop this cycle of prison, offending, prison, offending,prison, ad nauseum?
I'll tell you what could be done. Make prisons a really harsh environment, where the screws are all 6ft 6" across the chest. Make it a hard, work based environment,,, No work, no meals. Take away the TV's, pool tables, gyms etc. The harsher the prison, then more reason the cons will have to not re-offend.
But wait,,,,,,,,, Ahhhhhhhhhhh forgot. they have these Human Rights,,, don't they? The same Human Rights, they forgot their victims had.
Peaps, you speak utter tosh. If your daughter got raped, or even murdered, by some crim, your honestly telling me, you'd want him to have the best treatment possible inside?

 

[peaps]

Including yourself, you said earlier

Ahh we are down to the cherry picking of my posts to try have a dig..

Go back, read again and then come back.

maybe people who are determined to continue committing crimes haven't earned a second chance.

Maybe if that chance was there first time around they wouldn't offend again...

 

[peaps]

"The cycle needs to be broken and it's society that has a hand to play at breaking it."

Isn't "society" about abiding by the rules as well - it can't be acceptable that the laws of the land are optional, otherwise we would have no society at all. The contributor (Mark) sounded intelligent, but he made an adult choice to utterly disregard the law. His. Free. Will.

Laws don't make a society, you seem intelligent enough to know that much.
You will always get people like Mark who is prepared to go to prison for what they believe. we are not talking about this minority are we?