Air Source Heat Pump Planning

[aveatry]

This video does not really help the OP. I will say this though, Roger Bigsby is extremely biased when it comes to ASHP. There is a follow-up of above video in collaboration with Rogers mortal enemy >> Heatgeeks. Heatgeeks are obviously very biased to the other side of ASHPs, so this is a decent watch where both sides make good arguments. It's even on the Skill Builder channel.

Apologies to the OP for not really addressing their query.

It might help the OP persuade his neighbour that they are not fit for purpose in most homes and give up on the idea.

 

[Notch7]

that they are not fit for purpose in most homes

not true

 

[aveatry]

not true

Nope - true.
They are sold on the basis of saving money but after spending £12,000 you might save £100 so long as you dont run it at peak times

 

[mrrusty]

I would be keeping my powder dry for now, because it is apparent from the Gov website and mutterings in the press that hybrid heat pumps will most likely fall under the subsidy scheme in a year or two. This is a much more viable solution for many UK houses, where the heat pump does what it can and a gas (or oil) boiler tops it up. More complexity at the sharp end, but no need for a storage tank, and can use exactly the same rads as a standard gas system.

I priced it up for our house using a bolt-on to our existing WB gas boiler at maximum £8K. If they start subsidising this and equalising the price of electricity v gas per kW, then this could get very interesting.

Hybrid Systems | Worcester Bosch

A hybrid heating and hot water system is a combination of two or more technologies generating heat to provide heating and hot water to the home or building. Learn more about hybrid systems

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk

 

[lostinthelight]

Hybrids sounds like a face saving admission of the failings of heat pumps

 

[aveatry]

I would be keeping my powder dry for now, because it is apparent from the Gov website and mutterings in the press that hybrid heat pumps will most likely fall under the subsidy scheme in a year or two. This is a much more viable solution for many UK houses, where the heat pump does what it can and a gas (or oil) boiler tops it up. More complexity at the sharp end, but no need for a storage tank, and can use exactly the same rads as a standard gas system.

I priced it up for our house using a bolt-on to our existing WB gas boiler at maximum £8K. If they start subsidising this and equalising the price of electricity v gas per kW, then this could get very interesting.

Hybrid Systems | Worcester Bosch

A hybrid heating and hot water system is a combination of two or more technologies generating heat to provide heating and hot water to the home or building. Learn more about hybrid systems

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk

Now that sounds fit for purpose

 

[mrrusty]

Hybrids sounds like a face saving admission of the failings of heat pumps

It sounds like a dose of reality to me - an admission that pure air-to-water is impractical for much of the UK. Nothing wrong with heat pumps as such - they can deliver 3-4kW of heat for every 1kW of leccy. In Norway 95% of heat pumps are air to air (i.e. air conditioners). All heat pumps work the same way. The failing is in the UK they can't deliver enough heat to keep a typical house warm enough without significantly increasing insulation.

If electric and gas were the same price per kWh, then a hybrid system would be a no-brainer. 60-70% heating from heat pump, topped up with 30-40% from gas and the gas kicking in for hot water.

 

[robinbanks]

There is reference in the vid to the type of noise element of heat pumps which the Op could cite

Anecdotal, subjective and varies by manufacturer. Worthless IMO

95% of heat pumps are air to air

Don't get a grant for A2A though?!

in the UK they can't deliver enough heat to keep a typical house warm

Yeah, but that's the house's fault, not the heat pump's. The fact that the house is cark and only feels warm when one throws a 30kW boiler at it because most of it rapidly leaks away into the world air, doesn't mean we should find a 30kW heat pump to throw at it. It means we need to stop it rapidly leaking its heat to the world.

You heard the guy in the video - most of his house is 1930s uninsulated 9 inch solid wall. The dipstick that recommended a heat pump to him in the first place, together with the dimspark that wired it into his lighting circuit and the plum didn't fit anything it could use to effectively perform a defrost, all want a good kicking

topped up with 30-40% from gas

We need to move away from fossil fuels, not kick the can down the road by using only half the amount

spending £12,000 you might save £100

Good grief, give it a rest with trotting out imaginary numbers

 

[mrrusty]

Don't get a grant for A2A though?!

not in the UK - I wonder why!!

 

[robinbanks]

not in the UK - I wonder why!!

Because the government are trying to get people to fit systems that replace the two functions of a boiler; CH and DHW. A2A only do one of those, leaving homeowners without a viable option for the other

 

[mrrusty]

more likely they don't want people using them as aircon in the summer. A2A is a good solution because it's cheap. An electric boiler or immersion can look after hot water, or even combine A2A with gas just for instant hot water and top-up heating. https://heatpumpingtechnologies.org...onal-workshop-the-heat-pump-market-in-norway/

 

[robinbanks]

electric boiler or immersion

Skipping over the steer toward fossil for a moment, picking the most energy intensive way of generating hot water using electricity makes me feel a little bit like you're not quite getting it!

 

[mrrusty]

No I get it. I expect in the next few years Gov will skew the prices between gas and electric to make them closer. If they ever reach parity, a kWh is a kWh - doesn't matter then if it comes from electric or gas. ATM, I'm sitting on my hands with all this green stuff, but we won't be able to avoid it for ever.

 

[aveatry]

Good grief, give it a rest with trotting out imaginary numbers

Its on the GOV website --
This includes boosting the budget for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme to support more households switch to a heat pump – which can save families around £100 a year compared to a gas boiler by using a smart tariff effectively,

Yes the £12k is an estimate for sure depending on what extra has to be done, but what you may save is perfectly clear on the Gov website and that possible £100 saving is only by also using the smart tariff effectively -- means only switching it on at off peak times -- you know those times when you want it on and not at 2am in the morning.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Its on the GOV website --
This includes boosting the budget for the Boiler Upgrade Scheme to support more households switch to a heat pump – which can save families around £100 a year compared to a gas boiler by using a smart tariff effectively,

Yes the £12k is an estimate for sure depending on what extra has to be done, but what you may save is perfectly clear on the Gov website and that possible £100 saving is only by also using the smart tariff effectively -- means only switching it on at off peak times -- you know those times when you want it on and not at 2am in the morning.

Instant heat is expensive. Always has been, always will be.