Alarms ? wired or wireless

[sparklers]

Not strictly true.

With wireless systems the panel can indicate wether it can see a sensor or not making finding a faulty zone easy.

In addition the panel or siren can audibly indicate when a sensor is passed during a walk test. The red light helps you positively identify which sensor picked you up if you have a few active ones in an area awaiting fitment.

The control panel also in walk test can keep a log of the last sensor activated during the walk test.

I remember one time though installing a large system to a public house.
2 external sirens
10 infra red sensors
7 door contacts
and a remote keypad.

I started at 8am to have the system installed before the customers arrived at 12.
There was a delay caused by having to drill a hole through 2ft of stone wall so the customers arrived while I was performing the final walk test.

All of a sudden the control panel started bleeping like crazy as the sensors picked up movement. I was standing at sensors two rooms away from the panel and trying to tell wether the panel was reacting to my activating the sensor or not as it beeped like crazy...

 

[bernardgreen]

Not strictly true.

With wireless systems the panel can indicate wether it can see a sensor or not making finding a faulty zone easy.

You are doing a walk test. You walk across a sensor that is in a active zone. There is no response from the control panel.

How do you decide whether

[1] the sensor did not "see" you
[2] the sensor did "see" you but the wireless linked message had not reached the control panel
[3] the wireless linked message did reach the control panel but the panel did not recognise it as a sensor on the system

And if the master device is the bell box unit then there is the added complication of the linkage between bell box and control panel being an extra link to be considered in the diagnostic process.

Knowing from the LED on the sensor that at least the sensor has "seen" you does remove one of several uncertainties present in fault finding on a wireless linked system.

 

[wirefree]

I see what you mean now.

It is a slightly odd situation as in nearly 1000 pir enrols I have yet to have a sensor that failed to link.

But as you say. The red led will confirm in walk test that the sensor saw you and the confirmation beep from the panel will confirm it has recieved the signal. The panel also keeps a log in walk test of the sensors activated in chronological order , last being top of the list.

In relation to when the siren is the master there is no control panel and all devices sensors,contacts,keypads etc link directly to the siren.
A beep from the siren when in walk test/tamper off mode signifies it has recieved a signal.

If I ever end up in a situation where enroling a sensor fails and yet other sensors have worked proving the panel or siren are ok I would simply return it for a refund and use another. Likeswise if a siren or panel failed to resond to any sensor.

 

[bernardgreen]

I see what you mean now.

You will only see what you want to see.

You speak only about installing the system.

In relation to when the siren is the master there is no control panel and all devices sensors,contacts,keypads etc link directly to the siren.

Not a good thing to have the "master" in a place chosen intentionally to be difficult to access. Especially as it seems one has to be able to be with the master to "educate" it as to the identities of its servant sensors. Does one have to get access to the bell box when a sensor is being replaced or removed in the system you advocate so strongly ?

I am not going to spend more time on this conversation.

 

[wirefree]

Not a good thing to have the "master" in a place chosen intentionally to be difficult to access. Especially as it seems one has to be able to be with the master to "educate" it as to the identities of its servant sensors. Does one have to get access to the bell box when a sensor is being replaced or removed in the system ?

You are welcome to cease this conversation. Although I bow to your superior knowledge regarding actual wireless transmission I can see your knowledge doesn't extend to how even the simplest system operates.

In answer to your supposition that it is not a good thing to have the master where it is difficult to access , that problem is easily solved.

The keypad or even keyfob can remotely set the siren into learn mode as they both have remote control capabilities to change the siren mode status.

You can therefore add new devices into the system easily from ground level.

I an sorry to say that the engineers who designed these systems were extremely thorough in looking to cover almost all eventualities.

I am sure the engineers who designed the systems were extremely well educated and spent far more time on the development of the systems than our elementary discussions. They have passed rigourous testing both in house and to comply with EC wireless legislation. A company like Yale with a huge reputation to uphold will have ensured that they would never fall foul of the Sale of Goods act and fitness for purpose.

I had a great respect for you Bernard as someone who looked at things objectively. I have always said a wired system is preferable to a wireless system but there are certain caveats even to that. I could with my experience defeat any class 2 domestic wired system without any problem.

The long and the short of it is that on this DIY forum there are many people who should not be here and whose sole agenda is to discredit DIY alarms.
These people do not even have any experience of the systems in use or how they work and operate yourself included but that doesn't stop continued criticism.

I know you believe that wireless systems can be comprimised , However I am in weekly contact with consumers whose wired systems have failed. In fact this forum consists mostly of such people logging on to ask for help.

How many people have logged on here because a Yale system has failed?
Most Yale request are to do with setting up , which is why I provide the service and joined this forum in the first place.

When I help a poster with a Yale problem they are extremely thankfull , one even sent me two bottles of Sauvignon Blanc through the post.

I am not and have never suggested a DIY system should be used to protect the Crown Jewels.
Basic domestic protection. Just like it says on the tin.

 

[aptsys]

I could with my experience defeat any class 2 domestic wired system without any problem.

I would love to see this.

 

[Europlex]

The problem is that he only has Class 1 DiY (that he charges to install) to practice on, not a Class 2 professional installation, there is a great difference.

 

[Meeja]

I could with my experience defeat any class 2 domestic wired system without any problem.

I would love to see this.

Me too.

 

[JohnD]

I have a professionally installed and maintained commercial alarm at my own home.

I am also looking after an empty house for several months and have decided to fit a wireless system because I can (probably) fit it myself in half a day or so.

I accept that it is not going to be as good, but the cost of the wireless system is less than the annual maintenance charge on my home system.

Who's to say I'm wrong, under the circumstances?


I wonder if there is any preference for the Yale or the Response wireless systems?

 

[rockandroll]

I have a professionally installed and maintained commercial alarm at my own home.

I am also looking after an empty house for several months and have decided to fit a wireless system because I can (probably) fit it myself in half a day or so.

I accept that it is not going to be as good, but the cost of the wireless system is less than the annual maintenance charge on my home system.

Who's to say I'm wrong, under the circumstances?


I wonder if there is any preference for the Yale or the Response wireless systems?

neither - look at a graded unit



Risco do a reasonable one

 

[JohnD]

I found the Risco website but I can't see any prices

what do you mean by graded?

 

[yaleguy]

I found the Risco website but I can't see any prices

what do you mean by graded?

Graded means suitable for insurance approval. I see you are protecting a friends house for him. if he wants a full approved alarm he could give you the spondooleys to get such a system. However I see you have already chosen a Yale system. Don't worry it will perform perfectly adequately for your purposes and budget. You have a fully installed system at your own home which you have already says costs in yearly fees what the Yale alarm cost. For the purposes of protecting an empty property it will be fine. people have given you the idea that you need to somehow disguise it is a Yale alarm in case somehow people will think it is then easy to break in. This is nonsense as all the Yale alarms I have experience of have all activated as designed when any attempts at break ins have occured. Noone has ever told me an alarm has failed to work.

 

[aptsys]

This is nonsense as all the Yale alarms I have experience of have all activated as designed when any attempts at break ins have occured. Noone has ever told me an alarm has failed to work.

Because their phones were stolen during the break in.

 

[JohnD]

Hahahahahaha!

 

[yaleguy]

Fortunately no they all still have their phones and belongings.

Unluckily you have bought a Yale alarm and for some reason on this DIY forum you will therefore become an object of ridicule by people who have never even fitted or tested a Yale alarm.

look at the posts requesting help on this forum. Its all professionaly installed alarms all breaking down for one reason or another. How many Yale alarm threads are there requesting help with a system not working?
Considering how many get sold through argos/Tesco/Homebase B&Q etc it does seem strange there are hardly any requests for help with faulty systems . . unless of course thats because they are reliable? surely not?