Am I being ripped off? Do I *need* a wall mounted thermosta

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I am going to get my combi replaced and have had a quote which I don't entirely agree with. I kind of like the firm I got the quote from but I last had dealings with them 10 years ago and there might be a more aggressive sales policy in place.
The question: I have thermostatic radiator valves on *all* my radiators. The CH outflow and return pipes have a 'short-circuit' pipe running between them about 1ft below the boiler which has a tap on it turned very low. With this setup if all the rad valves close there is still a circuit of water to return into the boiler so it can turn off gracefully.
On the quote there is a remote-controlled room thermostat itemised. I queried this and was told that it's a part of new regs and that it was required as otherwise the boiler would shutdown. Is it required?

Perhaps a more difficult question to answer: the overall price of the quote.
My existing combi has all the pipes in place apart from the condensate drain which will have to be 32mm plastic as it's going down an outside wall.
New boiler (Vaillant 831) can be had for £1300 +vat if you're crazy or £900 inc vat from the internet and I told this company as much.
I know it'll need an 'exhaust pipe' but these are push-fit and can be put in the same place as the existing one.
I'm guessing it's 1 day's labour. They're quoting a shade over £2000 inc vat including the boiler. Granted, they're going to do a chemical flush (and the above thermostat) but still I find this a bit steep.

Finally: British Gas. I have a service contract with them and have saved a small fortune by having this as I am the unfortunate owner of a Potterton Puma 100e which has gone through 4 diverter valves, 2 DHW wax stats, 5 electronics boards and a pump. They are now saying that I need a power-flush which will cost £750 (9 rads) and if I don't get it done they'll not fix any more CH faults. They did not show me any evidence to prove that I am sludged up and over the past 8 years every rad has been removed, flushed out and replaced while doing some major redecorating. Also, at the risk of showing my ignorance, my boiler is upstairs and so is the highest part of the CH system - I am presuming that this would mean that it is less likely to sludge up? (although I guess sludge may still make the pump have to work harder). Shortly after telling me that I needed this flush they said that as a part of a boiler replacement, BG will power-flush free-of-charge... oh and by the way please mention my name when ordering the boiler.
This smells like a fiddle to me but I don't know what I can do about it.

If you've read this far, many thanks. ;)

I'd be very interested in anyones opinion.

Ian.
 
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Yes, you do need the stat, it is regulation, you will also find that on warmer days your boiler wouldn't even try to fire up as the house is already warm enough.. and save you a few pennies every time the boiler doesn't need to switch on.

Price of the install sounds reasonable to me.. if the price is too high you could save a few bob by getting a cheaper boiler...Say a nice little Potterton and have the guy round the corner fit it who doesn't pay things like Tax, VAT, Insurance....You get the picture ;)

If the company has stated what work it will do with what equipment and at what price, then how can they be trying to rip you off? :confused:
 
Good point about the itemised list - there isn't one, just the mention of the stat. Another good point you make is about the stat - I hadn't thought of it actually saving me some ca$h..
I might get them to itemise - at least then I can see how much they expect me to pay for the boiler. I might source the boiler myself and get them to install it although this might make callouts difficult - I wouldn't expect them to come out f.o.c to fix any bits the boiler may break. I'll check out the Vaillant guarantee - it may include on-site repair.
Thanks for your reply :)
 
This smells like a fiddle to me but I don't know what I can do about it.

You could try the following:

1. Don't buy from them.
2. Attempt the job yourself, seing as you appear to know what it's worth.
3. Name your price and keep looking for someone who'll agree to it.
4. Go without.
 
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There is a company over here who will fit a new boiler from £700.. The magic word here is FROM.. Plenty of folk who appear to be cheap but once all the bits are added on the price will be around the same as everyone else.. Possibly even dearer. Folk who chase the cheapest price are the prime candidates to be ripped off by the unscrupulous

I never fit the customers own kit as there is always something missing and it takes them days to get the bits from the spurious internet supplier.. a decent guy can't afford to be messed about
 
You asked the company for a price to change the boiler, yes?

The company gave you a price, yes?

So, what's the problem other than the fact the price appears to be more than you want to pay? On what basis do you make the comments that you find the price "a bit steep" and "I'm guessing it's one day's labour"? Are you in the trade and have intimate knowledge of what is required to install a new boiler to the latest regulations?

If you are not happy with the price quoted, get some more quotes including BG.
 
the big problem is the original poster has doubts because he tunes into staged depictions like rogue trader and such tripe deliberately aimed at peoples psychy and inner voices that say because i saw it on gmtv or read in the sun it must be true?
Truth of the matter is that the greater majority of registered gas installers are honest hard working people.
so opinions vary and they do according to experience...

look at it this way (directed at the original poster)

if or when you get your new system, it will be as good as the money you spend.
in as much as if you take your time listen to advice and decide that you want the best then thats what you get.

I had to my dismay have to install a new boiler in my own home end of the april when the part L of the building regs came into force, I had the choice at the time and could have had a boiler that didnt conform, just because im in the trade :rolleyes:
however I thought about it and got the best i could afford and the best recommended for efficiency and reliability, at the time it happened to be a worcester 30 he with compensator etc (thought they were all like that apparently not)
so with no doubt in my mind I can say over 2yrs without a single stutter that boiloer has paid its purchase cost and now is giving me money back
anyway point is compared with what your replacing just think whats for the best?
pay back is a delight :)
 
Corgigrouch - I agree about sourcing the parts myself.. If I were the installer I'd want to be responsible for the parts used and not be restricted by what the customer decided to get but I don't want to be ripped off either. I think the problem is the bill ain't itemised - I'm guessing that the boiler is costing a grand and it's a grand for installation - this may not be the case. I'll stop moaning until I get a breakdown. I'll be in a better position to make a decision then.

As far as fitting it myself is concerned I do not wish to either break the law or put myself or my family at risk. It's not just the water and electricity in close proximity I worry about, nor is it the prospect of a gas leak but carbon monoxide too. I have done plumming, rewiring and building in the past but I know when to draw the line.

I have asked BG for a quote - I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's less than £2k. The reason for this thread was to get a finger in the air guestimate and to check on the room stat. I'm getting a 'sounds right'.... thanks.
 
Sheesh you are a pain aint you!

As Giblets put it you asked they gave

get more quotes if you dont like it I doubt very much that they have the time or inclination to muck about with you so they wont miss your job if you tell them to do one,

As the old saying goes

"How about we shot the boss, give you it for free, iron your shirt AND give you a tenner WOULD THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY?"


:)

Glad you aint one of my clients

:)
 
I'm guessing that the boiler is costing a grand and it's a grand for installation

Wrong - The boiler may be £1000, the labour & other materials £700 and the VAT £300

If a client asks me for a price to change a boiler thats what he gets - a price. If he then wants a breakdown of that price he can have one - but he will have to pay for it.

If he starts telling me that he can get the same boiler for £XXX on the internet then it will be suggested that he does that and finds another installer to put it in.

If he wants to supply his own bit of kit then he will be told in the nicest possible way that I am not interested in doing the job on those terms.

Some years ago I went round to a very nice house locally and spent over 1.5 hours discussing with the prospective client his requirements and the various possibilities for the works. As I was leaving after agreeing to send a quote he opened the garage door and pointed to a brand new boiler that he had bought at a local merchants for the same price that I would have paid. I believe it took over six months for him to find someone to do the work and it cost him almost twice as much in labour as I was going to charge. :rolleyes:
 
When I quote, I never break down the prices in to parts and labour. If pushed I would quote the parts at full retail from my supplier and as we all know, this price does not reflect the true price. So a monetary break down is pointless. But I do list what boiler I would be installing.. Radiator Mfr, Magna clean or boiler buddy, make of the TRVs etc and also note if the water cylinder has to be specially made.. And then I give a bottom line price... That is my price, take it or leave it

The phrase a grand for the boiler and a grand for fitting always makes me laugh.. Take out all the overheads that folk on PAYE never see and the money looks pretty pathetic... Plus it is never just a boiler as some mistakenly believe.. Fittings, pipe, all the little things that are just a quid or two but all total up
 
Yeh, i never give people an itemised breakdown of the costs.
If the the job costs £2000 then take it or leave it.
 
YAWN YAWN same old story, if you don't like the price then don't bloody ask for quotes from genuine installers find yourself a cowboy :evil:

Plenty of past post's been there, and no doubt plenty more time wasters going to ask same stupid question :evil:

YAWN YAWN
 

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