Another Scout Project

;)

This came about from an official IET-backed Scout project where a single LED is run directly from a 3V cell.

I just wondered, given that this was possible, whether it could be done with 2, without the need for a resistor.

I guess you're saying no!
 
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The LED's sold suitable for that kit (by an independent company) are 2.1V forward voltage drop and 25mA Max forward current.
 
;) This came about from an official IET-backed Scout project where a single LED is run directly from a 3V cell. I just wondered, given that this was possible, whether it could be done with 2, without the need for a resistor. I guess you're saying no!
Not quite. Provided the Vfs are low enough in relation to the battery voltage, having two LEDs without a resistor is not conceptually different/worse than having one without a resistor - in both cases the issue is that the current is unpredictable.

In the context of a specific design, with very specific component, it may have been found (e.g. by the IET) that the internal resistance of the particular 3V cell specified was such that a reasonable/acceptable current flowed through the particular LED specified (with its particular characteristics) when connected directly to it without a resistor. However, without doing the experiments yourself, you would not be able the generalise/extrapolate from that to the situation with any other cell/LED combination. So don't give up hope - it might just happen to work (producing enough light, but not blowing up the LED) with the particular LED/cell combination you've ordered.

Kind Regards, John
 
That's the odd thing, John....

The IET don't specify any LED characteristics!!

The only thing they do specify is the button cell voltage: 3V.

I think I'm gonna have to experiment.

I've got LED's with a max. forward voltage of 3.6V which I am informed (by various sources) will work all day long with a 3V cell. :confused:

Bought 'em now!!

But to put two in parallel: 1.7/ 1.8V each???
 
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That's the odd thing, John.... The IET don't specify any LED characteristics!! The only thing they do specify is the button cell voltage: 3V.
In that case, one probably needs a crystal ball to predict what would happen with any particular LED.
I think I'm gonna have to experiment.
Indeed, as I said.
I've got LED's with a max. forward voltage of 3.6V which I am informed (by various sources) will work all day long with a 3V cell. :confused:
Maybe. The question is what current would flow from a (new) 3V cell through it, and whether that would be within its maximum current-carrying capability. Your experiment will tell you.
Bought 'em now!! But to put two in parallel: 1.7/ 1.8V each???
Do you mean series or parallel? If you put them in series across a 3V cell then, as has been said, whether or not they light at all is dependent on their characteristics, so for you to discover by experiment. If you put them in parallel across the 3V cell (with no resistors), they would each carry roughly half the current that would go through one across the 3V cell (without a resistor), since they would be 'sharing' the internal resistance of the cell.

Let us know how your experiments go!

Kind Regards, John
 
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Well, I got me some LED's: ... And some cells: ... And I've put them together with strips of tin foil, as they would be if they were made into a card. Two LED's in parallel. ... They were switched on at 11am, still going (!!) I'm running an endurance test to see when the cell will exhaust itself.
So far, so good, then. Have you measured how much current is flowing?

Kind Regards, John
 
Well, I got me some LED's: ... And some cells: ... And I've put them together with strips of tin foil, as they would be if they were made into a card. Two LED's in parallel. ... They were switched on at 11am, still going (!!) I'm running an endurance test to see when the cell will exhaust itself.
So far, so good, then. Have you measured how much current is flowing?

Kind Regards, John

He will not have the facilities to measure such low currents.
 
I've got an Alphatek DMM.

It looked at the LED's and stuck two electronic fingers up at me!

Just to be mean, I added a third LED at 12:18.
 
A multimeter, even a good one, is not going to be able to measure uA currents on an LED powered in this manner. Look up 'burden voltage'.
Why μA (assuming he is seeing some light)?

Kind Regards, John

Because I doubt he's driving milliamps through LEDs with a nominal specified Vf of 3.6V. Even at milliamps, the burden voltage of a normal meter will be seriously problematic.
 
Because I doubt he's driving milliamps through LEDs with a nominal specified Vf of 3.6V. Even at milliamps, the burden voltage of a normal meter will be seriously problematic.
It's difficult (at least for me!) to be sure what he's dealing with on the basis of the 'data sheet' in the eBay listing. The 3.6V is specified as the 'maximum Vf' (seemingly at 30mA), but it's not just an LED (must have some flasher electronics) - so that figure may just be the 'maximum supply voltage', rather than Vf of the LED.

I do wonder, however, if he really does only have "μA" flowing. IME, anything less than about 1mA through an LED results in light output which is not necessarily easy to see! However, you may be right.

Kind Regards, John
 

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