Zampa said:
I don't understand what's going on here. Surely putting every single bill through your accounts is nothing to do with honesty, just to do with paying as little tax as possible?
I don't understand what's going on here. Surely putting every single bill through your accounts is nothing to do with honesty, just to do with paying as little tax as possible?
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M
Moz
hermes
"but if the work's not been done then you would still have the materials."
DUH
You can buy materials as much as you want an put them through fact , Its called stock ...
I went to a mates site , an asked there ...
BUT
you cant say you bought materials for a job if you use "stock" materials
"but if the work's not been done then you would still have the materials."
DUH
You can buy materials as much as you want an put them through fact , Its called stock ...
I went to a mates site , an asked there ...
BUT
you cant say you bought materials for a job if you use "stock" materials
B
BOB.DOLE
Moz said:
WHERE THE HELL DID MY GOD TOPIC GO ?
MOD ARE YOU GOD ?
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I said everything goes through the books. How is that in any way avoiding tax?hermes said:
You agreenoodlz said:Quite agree, Hermes, again
With what? A mind-numbingly bizarre interpretation of "everything goes through the books"? What on Earth do I have to fear from a visit by the IR?
This is a bit closer to reality, although the concept of "work not done" is a little off-kilter. I buy materials for stock - if that stock is used, then I raise an invoice. Whether or not labour is included on the invoice is my choice, and it's perfectly legitimate not to - that is then a parts-only invoice, or "bill", to use the slang word.Moz said:
Why? Because that's the way it should be done when everything is honest and above board. Very honest? No - you can't get more honest than plain honest. Shifting cash is very straightforward - I spend it on materials, and it all goes through the books.Zampa said:
Just to re-iterate, for anyone else who's hard of thinking, "it all goes through the books" means that it all goes through the books. if you can think of a different interpretation that makes one iota of sense, please let me know and I'll clarify.
If anyone is struggling with the concept of plain honesty, here's an example:
I bought some flowers from Sainsburys, which were 'guaranteed' to stay fresh for seven days, but after three days they wilted. I returned the flowers, politely explaining what happened, and produced the receipt. The CS lady asked me to pick a replacement bunch, but there weren't any [bunches] of the same size, so I asked if I might choose three smaller bunches, which amount to more money, and pay the extra. They were lillies, BTW.
Here's the good bit - the lady wrapped up the flowers, handed them to me, then refunded me the cost of the original flowers. I stared at her, and pointed out that she had made a mistake. She insisted that it was right, because I had returned the flowers. I patiently (yes, amazingly, I can be patient), and politely, pointed out that I had walked in with flowers, and was about to walk out with flowers (worth even more), and she was trying to give me money on top. Then the bloke in the queue behind me made a mistake - he said "you should have kept quiet mate - you could have got away with that".
This is where all hell broke loose. I was no longer patient, and turned on him, venomously demanding him to explain which bit of the back of my head made me look that the thieving w*anker that he obviously was. He didn't take kindly to that, but I had the moral high ground, and there was no mistaking the murderous glint in my eye. There was a face-off for a few seconds, until he wilted, like a three-day old lily, and sulkily said "suit yourself".
I turned back to the CS lady, who had realised her mistake and was putting the money back in the till. I handed her the extra money that I owed, thanked her, and turned to leave, with her trying to work out why on Earth I'd paid her.
Oh, and I don't make copies of CDs either.
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First off, Softus....much respect to you...there are far too few people around with as much honesty and I applaud you for it.
The guy in the queue may have just been trying to be nice, even though by your standards he was encouraging you to be dishonest, sometimes, just sometimes its better to be nice than right.......just my opinion.
Although I do respect your position, politeness costs nowt and I'm sure he would equally have learnt the lesson you were trying to teach him, if not more so if you might have said, thanks mate, but that wouldn't be right and if everyone did it, your shopping would cost a whole lot more. Just a thought.
With regards to the paint receipt...was slightly tongue in cheek....of course the tax man isn't going to be after you....sorry if I didn't make it clear it was a joke, but with a semantic point, that if you'd bought the paint for work at you mother's, I made the assumption that you wouldn't be invoicing your own mother for the cost of the paint, even if you were providing your services for free.
Can I simplify it and ask if you were buying the paint for yourself personally would you put that through your books? Now, if you're in that trade many people might, but strictly speaking it shouldn't be done. It's not a tax deductible item...if it were part of your business, hey, that's different. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
It really is a pedantic debating point, that I for one didn't mean to offend, especially you, as I do have a great deal of respect for you through your posts and what you show your values to be. Sorry
Take it easy fella
The guy in the queue may have just been trying to be nice, even though by your standards he was encouraging you to be dishonest, sometimes, just sometimes its better to be nice than right.......just my opinion.
Although I do respect your position, politeness costs nowt and I'm sure he would equally have learnt the lesson you were trying to teach him, if not more so if you might have said, thanks mate, but that wouldn't be right and if everyone did it, your shopping would cost a whole lot more. Just a thought.
With regards to the paint receipt...was slightly tongue in cheek....of course the tax man isn't going to be after you....sorry if I didn't make it clear it was a joke, but with a semantic point, that if you'd bought the paint for work at you mother's, I made the assumption that you wouldn't be invoicing your own mother for the cost of the paint, even if you were providing your services for free.
Can I simplify it and ask if you were buying the paint for yourself personally would you put that through your books? Now, if you're in that trade many people might, but strictly speaking it shouldn't be done. It's not a tax deductible item...if it were part of your business, hey, that's different. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
It really is a pedantic debating point, that I for one didn't mean to offend, especially you, as I do have a great deal of respect for you through your posts and what you show your values to be. Sorry
Take it easy fella
noodlz said:First off, Softus....much respect to you...there are far too few people around with as much honesty and I applaud you for it.
The guy in the queue may have just been trying to be nice, even though by your standards he was encouraging you to be dishonest, sometimes, just sometimes its better to be nice than right.......just my opinion.
Although I do respect your position, politeness costs nowt and I'm sure he would equally have learnt the lesson you were trying to teach him, if not more so if you might have said, thanks mate, but that wouldn't be right and if everyone did it, your shopping would cost a whole lot more. Just a thought.
With regards to the paint receipt...was slightly tongue in cheek....of course the tax man isn't going to be after you....sorry if I didn't make it clear it was a joke, but with a semantic point, that if you'd bought the paint for work at you mother's, I made the assumption that you wouldn't be invoicing your own mother for the cost of the paint, even if you were providing your services for free.
Can I simplify it and ask if you were buying the paint for yourself personally would you put that through your books? Now, if you're in that trade many people might, but strictly speaking it shouldn't be done. It's not a tax deductible item...if it were part of your business, hey, that's different. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
It really is a pedantic debating point, that I for one didn't mean to offend, especially you, as I do have a great deal of respect for you through your posts and what you show your values to be. Sorry
Take it easy fella
,
noodlz said:
Well i don't know, he's quite clued up with this sort of thing,
I accept your point noodlz, and your kind words that preceded them.noodlz said:
For the sake of reasonable brevity, I omitted the bit where I looked the guy up and down, observed the lack of eye contact and the general lack of friendliness on his part, and made an instantaneous judgement. I accept that I didn't give him a second chance, but the other thing I omitted is the fact that the lady did her best to make me look a bit thick, with her eye rolling, and her glancing down the queue as if to say "go away mate, I'm busy here". Hence I was about to get riled with her anyway, so when arthur Daley behind me chirped up with his t'pennorth, I was looking for trouble.
Although I do respect your position, politeness costs nowt and I'm sure he would equally have learnt the lesson you were trying to teach him, if not more so if you might have said, thanks mate, but that wouldn't be right and if everyone did it, your shopping would cost a whole lot more. Just a thought.[/quote]
A valid thought, and one that I'll take to heart. Thanks.
Not sure where paint comes into it, but the principle is the same. Your assumption, as I suspect you've already realised was wrong - when I wrote "including parts-only bills for jobs I do for my own mother", I was using "bill" to mean "invoice", i.e. she pays for the materials.noodlz said:
Sometimes, naturally, I pay for the materials myself, but all that happens then is that I pay into my own business out of my own net income - so I actually lose out by the amount that my personal income is taxed. But that's what happens when one buys any gift.
This is a very good question, and the answer is that I do put it through the books, but then declare it as a taxable benefit (or whatever my accountant calls it).noodlz said:
I agree - you're right. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending that I'm not tempted to lie - I'm not made of wood. Honesty doesn't always come easily, but that makes it all the more worthwhile, IMHO.noodlz said:
Blimey! You're the one thennoodlz said:It really is a pedantic debating point, that I for one didn't mean to offend, especially you, as I do have a great deal of respect for you through your posts and what you show your values to be. Sorry
No need to apologise noodlz; you've explained what you meant, and I can see that no offence was intended. It's the stupid assumptions that hermes made that take issue with.
You too. Cheersnoodlz said:Take it easy fella
P
paulbrown
Softus said:Are you being deliberately obtuse? I said everything goes through the books. How is that in any way avoiding tax?hermes said:
You agreenoodlz said:Quite agree, Hermes, again
With what? A mind-numbingly bizarre interpretation of "everything goes through the books"? What on Earth do I have to fear from a visit by the IR?
This is a bit closer to reality, although the concept of "work not done" is a little off-kilter. I buy materials for stock - if that stock is used, then I raise an invoice. Whether or not labour is included on the invoice is my choice, and it's perfectly legitimate not to - that is then a parts-only invoice, or "bill", to use the slang word.Moz said:
Why? Because that's the way it should be done when everything is honest and above board. Very honest? No - you can't get more honest than plain honest. Shifting cash is very straightforward - I spend it on materials, and it all goes through the books.Zampa said:
Just to re-iterate, for anyone else who's hard of thinking, "it all goes through the books" means that it all goes through the books. if you can think of a different interpretation that makes one iota of sense, please let me know and I'll clarify.
If anyone is struggling with the concept of plain honesty, here's an example:
I bought some flowers from Sainsburys, which were 'guaranteed' to stay fresh for seven days, but after three days they wilted. I returned the flowers, politely explaining what happened, and produced the receipt. The CS lady asked me to pick a replacement bunch, but there weren't any [bunches] of the same size, so I asked if I might choose three smaller bunches, which amount to more money, and pay the extra. They were lillies, BTW.
Here's the good bit - the lady wrapped up the flowers, handed them to me, then refunded me the cost of the original flowers. I stared at her, and pointed out that she had made a mistake. She insisted that it was right, because I had returned the flowers. I patiently (yes, amazingly, I can be patient), and politely, pointed out that I had walked in with flowers, and was about to walk out with flowers (worth even more), and she was trying to give me money on top. Then the bloke in the queue behind me made a mistake - he said "you should have kept quiet mate - you could have got away with that".
This is where all hell broke loose. I was no longer patient, and turned on him, venomously demanding him to explain which bit of the back of my head made me look that the thieving w*anker that he obviously was. He didn't take kindly to that, but I had the moral high ground, and there was no mistaking the murderous glint in my eye. There was a face-off for a few seconds, until he wilted, like a three-day old lily, and sulkily said "suit yourself".
I turned back to the CS lady, who had realised her mistake and was putting the money back in the till. I handed her the extra money that I owed, thanked her, and turned to leave, with her trying to work out why on Earth I'd paid her.
Oh, and I don't make copies of CDs either.
Softus your post reminds me of a similar situation I had years ago. I was in a local auto electrical suppliers, which I rarely used so didn't get any discount. The bill was around a fiver and I gave the guy a £20 note. I got my change and the tenner felt a bit thick, it turned out they were brand new notes and there were three of them stuck together. I immediately told the shop owner about his mistake and he said it was rare for anyone to be so honest. He took the money back thanked me and from that day on every time I go in he gives me minimum 25% trade discount. He has never forgotten it and my honesty has repaid me many times over.
The money for nothing attitude prevalent today stinks, when I was in business I never did anyone a bad deal and it always paid dividends, people remember the small details, honesty pays.
Precisely.paulbrown said:
It's amazing how much we've managed to disagree, in the past, when it probably turns out that we're not that different.
I've got many more examples of episodes like yours. At the builders' merchant where I get most of my materials, the gatekeeper used to check, against the paperwork, what I'd bought - that's his job. One day, I borrowed his shovel to filll two bags of sharp sand, returned it afterwards, and drove away.
Got to site, looked at the bill and found to my horror that I'd only paid for one. I went straight back and told the gatekeeper, who smiled wryly and said "never mind". Since then, whenever I present my receipt, he takes it in his hand, looks at it once, looks me in the eye, smiles, thanks me, and hands it back.
You can't buy trust.
I collect timber from jewsons now and then and the gate keeper looks like Mr bean, , he even mumbles like him too
, he even mumbles like him too Softus said:Are you being deliberately obtuse? I said everything goes through the books. How is that in any way avoiding tax?hermes said:
:
You implied that you do not charge your mum for the work you do for her. If you are doing this work gratis then to claim for your materials is tax evasion (not avoidance, which is legal.)
Congratulations - you've managed to infer something from my post which wasn't there, with no apparent motive other to create an argument, which is why I guess another poster mocked your post.
everything = all of my business income and expenditure edited to remove all doubt
the books = my business accounts
bill = invoice
my own mother = my maternal parent
parts-only = materials, but no labour element
parts-only bill = an invoice for materials that includes no labour element
If you want an argument, then bring it on, otherwise get lost.
To summarise:
I implied nothing. I wrote this:hermes said:
For your benefit, since you appear to need it, I'll translate:Softus said:
everything = all of my business income and expenditure edited to remove all doubt
the books = my business accounts
bill = invoice
my own mother = my maternal parent
parts-only = materials, but no labour element
parts-only bill = an invoice for materials that includes no labour element
Not when I charge for those materials on a parts-only bill.hermes said:
If you want an argument, then bring it on, otherwise get lost.
To summarise:
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I totally agree its both noble and correct to repay honesty with more honesty...theres a feel good facter about it, similar to that of when you give stuff to charity or an appeal etc..
But what about a situation reversed, what about when someone is out to shaft you? or this my case knock me down for the hell of it
I priced some work for a fella who I knew to be a bit fly, a "little bit worrr a little bit waaaaeey"..he has a reputation for knocking people down and messing them around when it came to being paid...a mutual friend asked me to price some work for the guy, so out of respect I did...plus it was towards the end of the year and I didnt have much work left.
I gave him a striaght and fair price 700 quid....I dont play the beefing prices up and then bringing em back down game,...immediatly he said "tell you what I was thinking 500 so I'll meet you half way" (if I had said 3 quid he would have wanted it done for two!)
I reluctantly agreed feeling a bit down and relising i'd be losing money as d already cut my price to the bone...but...works work and it was better than nothing.
He then said..ok so thats 600 plus materials (which were about 200 quid) I said "yeh" and a warm feeling came over me...
My initial price had included materials..........
I make no apologies here whatsoever...however low you may think that is..it matters not...he was quite willing to allow me to lose a hundred quid...so I felt justified in returning the 'jesture'
The smartass had been out smarted
Ive been in the situation so many times before and always corrected people..and seeing their faces light up when they realise that, 1...its cheaper than they thought, 2... surprised at my honesty, is a fantastic feeling...plus the honesty is normally rewarded by being given the job
But what about a situation reversed, what about when someone is out to shaft you? or this my case knock me down for the hell of it
I priced some work for a fella who I knew to be a bit fly, a "little bit worrr a little bit waaaaeey"..he has a reputation for knocking people down and messing them around when it came to being paid...a mutual friend asked me to price some work for the guy, so out of respect I did...plus it was towards the end of the year and I didnt have much work left.
I gave him a striaght and fair price 700 quid....I dont play the beefing prices up and then bringing em back down game,...immediatly he said "tell you what I was thinking 500 so I'll meet you half way" (if I had said 3 quid he would have wanted it done for two!)
I reluctantly agreed feeling a bit down and relising i'd be losing money as d already cut my price to the bone...but...works work and it was better than nothing.
He then said..ok so thats 600 plus materials (which were about 200 quid) I said "yeh" and a warm feeling came over me...
My initial price had included materials..........
I make no apologies here whatsoever...however low you may think that is..it matters not...he was quite willing to allow me to lose a hundred quid...so I felt justified in returning the 'jesture'
The smartass had been out smarted
Ive been in the situation so many times before and always corrected people..and seeing their faces light up when they realise that, 1...its cheaper than they thought, 2... surprised at my honesty, is a fantastic feeling...plus the honesty is normally rewarded by being given the job
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