Breaking News (Rwanda policy)

[ajohn]

No, every single person was rejected. All of them.

That isn't what was reported. Some need reconsidering. Also one of the legal people who support the boat people mentioned that they will be appealing. Appeal court first.

Anyway what does it all mean really. One hotel in Rwanda. Announcement that they will be finding more accommodation here. Unused holiday camps, old student accommodation ..................mentioned. Gov sees it as a victory but under what circumstances?

I thought Mr Bike would dig up the ruling. Frome the noddy version
The court has concluded that, it is lawful for the government to make arrangements for relocating asylum seekers to Rwanda and for their asylum claims to be determined in Rwanda rather than in the United Kingdom.

government has made arrangements with the government of Rwanda which are intended to ensure that the asylum claims of people relocated to Rwanda are properly determined in Rwanda.

Rwanda is consistent with the Refugee Convention and with the statutory and other legal obligations on the government including the obligations imposed by the Human Rights Act 1998.

However, the Home Secretary must consider properly the circumstances of each individual claimant.

Lastly on the "rejects" I mentioned
The Home Secretary has not properly considered the circumstances of the eight individual claimants whose cases we have considered. For that reason, the decisions in those cases will be set aside and their cases will be referred back to the Home Secretary for her to consider afresh

This is one plane load. There is one hotel in Rwanda. The people are still the UK's responsibility. The gain may be that true rejects can be left in Rwanda, The tricky areas concerning processing them,

Anyone who comes through a safe country can be rejected under the framework

Where does it say that and what does a safe country mean? It's not the first one they come to. Most come from countries that are not safe or have specific problems - human rights figure.. That is why most are accepted. If they started off in a safe country they can be returned there - eg Albanians.

- Another had lived in Greece for 2 years (been granted refugee status), Germany for 6 months (applied again) and France a week, hardly travelling directly to the UK.

Different area and when they arrive here or moved out of Greece they are not refuges as asylum has been granted. A person like that can move around in the EU once they are a citizen unless different rules apply to them. They can also be deported back to the country they came from in the EU. That happens. No problem returning to a safe country as it will be.

 

[motorbiking]

I thought Mr Bike would dig up the ruling. Frome the noddy version

I did - its posted. link again https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/AAA-v-SSHD-Rwanda-judgment.pdf

Where does it say that and what does a safe country mean? It's not the first one they come to. Most come from countries that are not safe or have specific problems - human rights figure.. That is why most are accepted. If they started off in a safe country they can be returned there - eg Albanians.

See Section 3 - Legal Framework in the full judgement (its too long to post here).

Different area and when they arrive here or moved out of Greece they are not refuges as asylum has been granted. A person like that can move around in the EU once they are a citizen unless different rules apply to them. They can also be deported back to the country they came from in the EU. That happens. No problem returning to a safe country as it will be.

No it looks very much like Asylum shopping. Granted Refugee status in Greece, so actually should have been prosecuted for illegal entry to the UK. As subsequent immigration offences aren't defendable post refugee status. But in summary, didn't like Greece, so went to Germany, didn't like Germany so went to France, didn't like France so went to UK.

Like her or hate her... this is a good summary:

 

[martygturner]

I hang my head in shame that I live in a country that makes people illegal for just wanting a better live or even life itself...

 

[motorbiking]

90M refugees in the world. Can they all come here?
Probably 10 X that number of would be economic migrants. Can they all come here?

 

[ajohn]

Like her or hate her... this is a good summary:

She makes no reference to the 8 that the court disagreed with. The process is assumed to be selective. The opposition reply. While you may not be aware of it all parties will not welcome unlimited immigration. It's not even theoretically feasible. The interesting aspects are the points she raised without any answers. Ignore rant. Both sides do when in opposition.

She says all sent that way will be carefully considered. No carte blanche.

No it looks very much like Asylum shopping.

Some or all? If people like that can be picked up via some international register they are known. If no register how do they know. If there is no register why isn't there one. if countries just did deport people who were rejected up pops where to. France has at times according to the web.

I guess you are referring to this snippet on the other aspect
(b) they could have made an application for protection to that country but did not do so and there were no exceptional circumstances preventing such an application being made, or

Our rules ie
The inadmissibility and removal decisions were made in the exercise of the power in paragraphs 345A to 345D of the Immigration Rules:

Where is the legal discussion about that? This case is about 80 people. There wont be any as UK judge and UK law. Internationality? I doubt if it is even possible to get agreement in this area. One of the major problems. Then .what to do with rejects. It is a serious problem. The ones accepted are too for all in some way or the other. Other countries get more than we do.

Public opionion? Rather variable even on here. Unrealistic at both extremes of the argument.

Then comes the 160,000 here and in limbo - number mentioned by a Tory. That is their problem.

I posted a link about the methods used in Oz. They have their islands. Maybe we should use Skomer - no Rwanda instead. It's bigger. Doesn't have to remove the processing needs in either case.

 

[ajohn]

LOL We could send all 160,000 there and pay for 5years of Rwanda education and living support. 2000 trips, hotel that can take a couple of hundred so build some more. But hang on it seems we also have to process them there according to the conventions and before they go.

Oz decided to allow claimers to work. A revision of their visa system. Think resulted in fewer disappearances.

Anyway over time we will see how it all works out. I wonder about various laws and effectiveness in persuading people from coming the way they do. I smell a degree of political hot wind.

 

[motorbiking]

Its a long and boring read, so I appreciate you might have skimmed it. There is evidence submitted that one individual confessed to having been granted asylum in Greece, before going to Germany. His argument is that Greece was not a safe country, he had apparently witnessed stabbings. Go to Croydon and you'll probably see more. From Germany he applied again but did not wait for determination (probably would have been rejected) so went to France. From France he illegally entered the UK. He had no prospect of Asylum in the UK, so was a good candidate for Rwanda. Frankly he should have been sent back to Greece (where he had been given refugee status) or prosecuted for immigration offences.

 

[ajohn]

here is evidence submitted that one individual confessed to having been granted asylum in Greece, before going to Germany. His argument is that Greece was not a safe country, he had apparently witnessed stabbings. Go to Croydon and you'll probably see more. From Germany he applied again but did not wait for determination (probably would have been rejected) so went to France. From France he illegally entered the UK

One swallow. It's difficult to see why an EU citizen should seek to be a citizen of another EU country. Edit - they are one of those selected for Rwanda. In theory they could be deported to Greece.

Sunak is on TV at the moment.. Liaison Committee answering questions. Immigration. He intends to introduce more legislation next year and then all will be wonderful. He expects further legal actions. He's not doing that well with all of the questions being asked about a lot of areas.

Eeeek seems we can expect a 12p increase in fuel duty next year. Not up to the PM. Purely a matter for the Chancellor. Have to wait and see.

 

[Ihavenojob]

I hang my head in shame that I live in a country that makes people illegal for just wanting a better live or even life itself...

You'd be fine if someone burgled your house as you have better things than them?

 

[Notch7]

90M refugees in the world. Can they all come here?

Appeal to extremes fallacy. Nobody is suggesting they do.
This year the numbers coming are lower than they were in 2002.

 

[Dork Lard]

We are the land of milk & honey to the people who live in a land of hunger & poverty, our streets are paved with gold while their's are paved with ****.

Of course they will want to come here.

But there is a reason why we have plenty & they have little.

 

[Brigadier]

Appeal to extremes fallacy. Nobody is suggesting they do.
This year the numbers coming are lower than they were in 2002.

Quite, but the country cannot cope with the number of people who are here now.
And that is not a dig at the refugees, but at the government right now, and the political system in general.


Look around you; roads look like they've been used for artillery practice. Flooding because the gullies haven't been cleared of leaves and muck for years. Weeks to get a GP appointment. Hospital waiting list times in years, in some cases.

Unfortunately, genuine refugees are the victims of this shower's utter ineptitude and cronyism, but are made out to be a cause of this country's ills.

 

[motorbiking]

One swallow. It's difficult to see why an EU citizen should seek to be a citizen of another EU country. Edit - they are one of those selected for Rwanda. In theory they could be deported to Greece.

being granted refugee status doesn't make you an EU citizen. It is entirely intended to be temporary. it takes 7 years for a refugee living in Greece to claim citizenship.

 

[motorbiking]

Appeal to extremes fallacy. Nobody is suggesting they do.
This year the numbers coming are lower than they were in 2002.

This issue is we have widespread abuse of the system orchestrated by people traffickers, making millions and costing us millions.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I hang my head in shame that I live in a country that makes people illegal for just wanting a better live or even life itself...

Unfortunately it's not as straightforward as that though, is it (rhetorical.) I don't like to think I'm an isolationist when it comes to the UK and immigration, however neither do I think the current situation is right for anyone involved. It needs addressed. However because our politicians seem incapable of strategising in a longer term more balanced way, we end up with situations like the current challenge of folk coming across in small boats etc. If this had been properly addressed by both UK and French governments x years back, it could have been nipped in the bud. However we're then into the argument that France is quite happy not to stop the boats, so round and round the discussion goes.

And because of the woke agenda or whatever agenda this falls into, as soon as anyone tries to have a slightly more robust discussion about it, they're labelled as racist. So again, round and round the discussion goes.

It's pathetic really.