Business Practice/Payments/Deposits, Etc.

[gremlin16]

pbar

But how many customers have you stung?

good one.

Typical argumentative reply by a person who's been put right by others.

Thankfully I have the luxury of working for genuine customers and not a customer from hell.

And if you still cant see how petty you have been and insist on persisting with childish comments and arguments then my dads bigger than yours

 

[pbar]

pbar

But how many customers have you stung?

good one.

Typical argumentative reply by a person who's been put right by others.

Thankfully I have the luxury of working for genuine customers and not a customer from hell.

And if you still cant see how petty you have been and insist on persisting with childish comments and arguments then my dads bigger than yours

Glad you liked it. It was only a joke.
It couldn't have been much else.
I don't feel I've lost any argument about my issue. In fact, I don't even see an argument there. I simply asked if what the window guy was asking for was normal practice or quite usual to do, as I thought it was odd and abnormal, and still do, nothing I've seen on here says otherwise really.
I simply thought it odd to ask for such a high deposit on a job of this size, so I declined to use him and instead gone with one of the other quotes I had whereas 'you don't pay anything until they're in and your're happy', which was the case with every other company I had in to quote also.
I'm not a customer from hell, I'm not even his customer am I? Every other job I've had done by a tradesman in this house (and there's been loads) has been paid on the dot, no worries, usually with extra as I like to leave a decent tip. Stage payments - fine, reasonable deposits - fine, on more than one occasion I've gone out of my way to pay, taking the payment to their home so they don't have to wait.
You do a job you get paid straight away, that's how it is and should be.
Customers From Hell - it would make a good TV programme though, I like the idea.

 

[pbar]

Hi Softus, thanks for your very long and well laid out reply, you sure have a lot of time on your hands, much more than I have these days...

A lot of it is going over old ground and around in circles, and I think you're wrong with most everything you've put. But the points I find most interesting -

You state to the effect that as his previous work was ok, then it'll be ok this time. That's a rubbish thing to say, surely? A player can score a hat trick in one footy game, but that doesn't mean he'll score another, in every game thereafter. In fact he could play badly from then on. And I know all about bad football, being a Man City fan
In fact, I can back this up, (and this is one of those 'things' I wasn't going to dwell on, but you did ask me to go into depth on), he used to do the fitting himself, but doesn't so much now, he has a couple of lads doing it. And they are not so good by all accounts. I have asked two people that I know of, who had their's done. They have both given me bad reports, and are both in dispute over the work done and final payments. It's a further reason I am glad I have chosen someone else, who I also had references for, but were excellent one's.

I've had quotes which are slightly less and slightly more. Most have been around the same figure, it's been other reasons other than the costs that I have chosen to go with who I have gone with, i.e. good recommendations, no deposits, speed of service.

I have spoken to both his wife...and him, to try to arrange something previously. I don't mind a deposit, although I think it abnormal on this size job (as no one else I know of asks for one), I would have paid one, up to...say, 25%, but in my opinion almost 50% was too high, but he would not budge on what he wanted, which is his right of course, so I politely declined his terms and have chosen someone else. He seemed disapppointed to lose the job but was ok with me.

I don't believe I've slagged him off. I simply started this off to ask if this was a usual practice, and/or why he might be asking for it. I found it odd, and still do. Please feel free to go through the previous postings, I don't have the time, and let me know if I have done so. I will either apologise or explain. Certainly I don't think I have. In any case, how can I, I have not named him, and I won't do, this is just a virtual world. There are no attacks on him, nothing to defend.

I don't know what you mean about paying for quotes.

I think it best if I ignore the part where you say it's extremely rare for you to be incorrect!

Cheers.

 

[Softus]

I simply asked if what the window guy was asking for was normal practice or quite usual to do, as I thought it was odd and abnormal, and still do, nothing I've seen on here says otherwise really.

You say that now, but there was no such question in your original post. You asked if it had happened to anyone else, and it has, and you asked for opinions, which you've been given.

I simply thought it odd to ask for such a high deposit on a job of this size

You know perfectly well that it wasn't a deposit, because that has been explained to you, and yet you continue to call it a deposit. Is there a reason for you behaving so stupidly?

I'm not even his customer am I?

Really? What term would you use for someone who has used a company before and who asks that company to come and quote for more work? Or have you forgotten that you used this company before, hmm?

...I phoned to ask why, as we've had them fit other windows previously, and they never did this then...

_______________

I think you're wrong with most everything you've put.

Please state which parts are wrong.

You state to the effect that as his previous work was ok, then it'll be ok this time.

Please show me where I stated anything to that effect.

he used to do the fitting himself, but doesn't so much now, he has a couple of lads doing it. And they are not so good by all accounts. I have asked two people that I know of, who had their's done. They have both given me bad reports, and are both in dispute over the work done and final payments. It's a further reason I am glad I have chosen someone else, who I also had references for, but were excellent one's.

In that case you've done exactly the right thing - it's just a pity that you didn't do it before wasting his time in doing the quotation.

I've had quotes which are slightly less and slightly more. Most have been around the same figure, it's been other reasons other than the costs that I have chosen to go with who I have gone with, i.e. good recommendations, no deposits, speed of service.

I support the view that recommendations are the best way of choosing a company. However, your naive attitude towards deposits is likely to let you down at some point. In the current climate it's more important for all businesses to manage cashflow, therefore more-than-the-usual-number of companies and tradespeople are asking for deposits, or stage payments, or materials costs up front.

I don't know what you mean about paying for quotes.

I know you don't. You're being unusually dense on this point, which is why I asked you who you think pays for companies to provide quotations.

I think it best if I ignore the part where you say it's extremely rare for you to be incorrect!

Feel free to ignore anything you wish. Doing so doesn't make it wrong.

Ignoring a juggernaut that's about to hit you head-on won't change the outcome, which, coincidentally, is to put your brains in your a*se.

 

[pbar]

Hi Softus, thanks for yet another very long but well laid out post.

I will jump to a couple of important points, as I wish to put you right on those -

I call it a deposit as that was what his wife called it. She actually left a message stating that they required £1300 deposit. So there you go, it's a deposit, end of. And I have explained that in an earlier post.

Concerning, the poor references, I got those after the event, not before I asked him to come around and quote. I didn't get any before, as I had used him before. But with asking for such a large payment up front I since looked into them further, and then found that out.

You did say words to the effect of, he did work ok last time, so it will be this time, see -

I have no idea how the job will turn out no matter who does it...

That's clearly untrue, because you previously claimed that you were happy with the previous work of the first fitter.

So you see, again, I have to say I have no idea how the work would have turned out if he did it.
Just because a job was ok last time, one doesn't know if it would be to the same standard in the future.

I don't mind a deposit, part-material costs, or stage payments, all of which I have done before, and as I have previously explained. And I can see why they are in place. But I thought that a payment of £1300 on a pro-forma basis for Windows, whch equates to almost 50% too high.
I feel lucky and relieved that I had the sense to put the job on hold with him initially, having since found out those other 'things', part of which I explained before, which you since commented on.

I'm short on time, but I hope that clears those points up for you.

 

[Softus]

I call it a deposit as that was what his wife called it.

She was wrong. You are wrong. You are both wrong.

She actually left a message stating that they required £1300 deposit. So there you go, it's a deposit, end of. And I have explained that in an earlier post.

And I have explained that it isn't a deposit, so there you go.

A deposit is a direct payment to someone who is supplying you with goods or services, and its purpose is financial risk reduction, which it serves in the following two ways:

1. It puts off people who aren't serious;
2. It reduces financial exposure and eases cash flow.

A payment to a third party supplier for bespoke materials is not a deposit - it is merely a payment.

Concerning, the poor references, I got those after the event, not before I asked him to come around and quote. I didn't get any before, as I had used him before. But with asking for such a large payment up front I since looked into them further, and then found that out.

I know all that, and that's why I used the phrase "it's a pity".

You did say words to the effect of, he did work ok last time, so it will be this time, see -

I have no idea how the job will turn out no matter who does it...

That's clearly untrue, because you previously claimed that you were happy with the previous work of the first fitter.

So you see, again, I have to say I have no idea how the work would have turned out if he did it.

And, again, I say that this is untrue, because, having used him before, you have some how it would turn out, not no idea.

Just because a job was ok last time, one doesn't know if it would be to the same standard in the future.

You're giving a meaning to my words that just isn't there. Repeat business comes to tradespeople because of trust and prior experience of their work. To claim that you have no idea how it would turn out makes a mockery of your reason for going to him first when you had a new need for work to be done.

I'm short on time, but I hope that clears those points up for you.

No - it leaves things exactly as they were, with you being wrong, and with you unable to substantiate your claim that "most" of what I wrote was wrong. None of what I wrote was wrong, and you've failed abysmally in your attempt to make it appear otherwise.

 

[pbar]

Hi Softus, thanks for taking the time for yet another detailed post.

I think you should refrain from the personal attacks though.

You think I'm wrong.
I think you're wrong.

There you go, not much else to say then!

 

[Softus]

I think you should refrain from the personal attacks though.

Please show me where I've attacked anyone, personally or otherwise.

You think I'm wrong.

No. I've shown that you're wrong.

I think you're wrong.

Yes, and you've ignored my request for you to show me where I've been wrong.

There you go, not much else to say then!

Well, you could explain what your motivation was to create a topic here, when you clearly didn't need any advice, when you'd made up your mind about your window fitter beforehand, and when you proceeded merely to ignore or flatly contradict any opinion that disagreed with your own.

Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that the only motive you had was to moan / bleat / whine / complain / whimper about your situation, but I have no doubt that you think you have an alternative motive. And I use the word 'think' in the loosest possible sense.

 

[pbar]

Hi Softus, thanks for yet another post, you sure do have a lot of time to spend on these boards.

Nah, I didn't make up my mind beforehand, that's why I started this thread, to find out opinions on my scenario. Here and elsewhere. That's why (as I have already explained) I put the job on hold at first, and not cancelled it straight away. No disrespect, but you seem to read parts of posts, nit pick them out, and not read other parts.

I actually started it in another forum, where I 'know' a lot of the guys to get their thoughts as I respect a lot of those guys and their posts a great deal. That was the electrics UK forum, there's some very decent posts/thoughts by some of the other guys there.

Hope that clears that up for you.

I still think you're very wrong.

So that's that then.

Cheers.

 

[Softus]

I actually started it in another forum, where I 'know' a lot of the guys to get their thoughts as I respect a lot of those guys and their posts a great deal. That was the electrics UK forum, there's some very decent posts/thoughts by some of the other guys there.

I see. The same forum where one can find this comment of yours:

This is like being back in infant school.....

Is that what you mean by "respect"?

I still think you're very wrong.

And you're still utterly unable, or unwilling, to justify this erroneous statement:

I think you're wrong with most everything you've put.

And let's not forget that at least two other contributors to this topic view you as a rogue customer.

And let's not forget that you haven't had your windows delivered and fitted yet, let alone paid for them.

 

[pbar]

It's great this, it's like a game of ping pong.

Yes, 2 others might have suspected that I was a rogue customer, and suggested as such. I replied to those I think, if I remember rightly, and explained nothing could be further from the truth. I hope/think they then thought otherwise, as there is no truth in that whatsoever. I've never had payment issues, job issues. You do a job, you should get paid straight away, I've already explained all this, can't think why you keep going on about it, can only think you're struggling to 'have a go' about something else, and trying to score 'points' for some reason, perhaps you've not much else on.
And as I have already said, again, I'm not his customer. A previous one yes, a current one, no.
Yes, they've not been fitted yet. I've already said that as well!!!!! LOL

 

[Softus]

Is that what you mean by "respect"?

I note your silence on that point.

And you're still utterly unable, or unwilling, to justify this erroneous statement:

I think you're wrong with most everything you've put.

I note your silence on that point.

No doubt that you'll claim a lack of time to read previous pages, or instead attempt some ineffectual jibe, but neither of those succeeds in obscuring the bare fact that you've evaded most of the questions that I've put to you, but since you have interest in responding, I have no interest in repeatedly asking.

 

[pbar]

Hello again, how nice to hear from you.
You seem to be being unusually dense. (Your words, not mine)
See previous posts, but READ them this time.
No disrespect, but have you had some home troubles lately, your posts (not just here but elsewhere) are fuelled by bitterness and anger. Calm down dude.
Might I recommend you have blood pressure tests done, I can sense your heart rate pounding as you whack those keys typing your replies!

 

[godsoftandjoearedull]

My, oh my, oh my

 

[Softus]

Still no answers.