C1 ?

[ericmark]

Please, give a citation. Which law or regulation are you quoting?

It is a long time ago when I went to collage, we were taught the law as it was then, and likely things have changed, OK to have glass on a high wall visible from outside, that's a deterrent, but if not visible, it's a trap, and not allowed to set traps, however not sure if that's still true.

And the railway was always a bit special, trespass was a crime on the railway, but not with many other cases, there had to be damage involved.

These we all taught in the last year in collage, which for me was back in the 70s. But I know from a visit of the HSE that reports have to be in writing, when someone tried saying I had been informed of a fault in front of him, and he asked when the report had been sent in so he could inspect my records for it, when told it was verbal only, he dismissed it, must be in writing. In fact, he told the snitch, he could be taken to court for not submitting a written report.

Some things may be old wife's tales, like the customs having more power to the police, but we watch TV and see the reading of the will, have you ever known in real life that happening?

But be it an oil spillage, or an open electric box, it must be dealt with or reported. And we have a general duty to ensure no one is put in danger. Be it to screw a washing up bowl to the wall to cover the fuse box, or draw the DNO fuse, or evacuate the house, one can't simply ignore the danger, one must take reasonable steps. And from the reply just read, @SUNRAY used something near the same as my washing up bowl idea. Honest wrote that about washing up bowl before I had seen reply.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I think it's a long way from saying that we should do what we can to keep people safe, to:

And if an electrician makes a home uninhabitable, then he must find alternative accommodation,

The first is a moral statement about how people should work, and the second is 'quoting' a law (or regulation) whose existence we have no way of knowing. I happen to believe that quoting non-existent laws on the internet leads to a lot of problems.

 

[SUNRAY]

There is some legislation, but please don't ask me to quote it as I don't know the specifics, that make the person responsible for making another homeless liable to making alternative arrangements.
However that liability can be complex; if for example a landlord employs a contractor to do a job which makes the property uninhabital it will be the landlords liability.
So an electrician isolating a dangerous installation in a rental property is fairly unlikely to be liable unless it is his fault, in which case his insurance should cover much of the cost.

 

[securespark]

Please, give a citation. Which law or regulation are you quoting?

I have always understood we can only disconnect with the permission of the owner. But I have always covered myself with paperwork explaining the issues which is signed by me and, customer willing, them too. If they refuse to sign, I write that on the customer signature line.

 

[ebee]

We have been taught as far back as I can remember that an electrician with a health and safety matter can override the managing director, likely he would not keep his job for long, but above my pay grade does not hold water with health and safety. But must be reported in writing, that would include a SMS, but writing, a phone call is not enough.

And if an electrician makes a home uninhabitable, then he must find alternative accommodation, although nothing is said to who must pay for it, or making sure the ex occupants use it.

It was, it seems OK to just switch off a dangerous supply. One does not need to make it so it can't be switched on again, however when it happened to me, I felt I was guilty, I had disconnected a motor and clearly isolated the supply, locked it off, and given the key to the site foreman, as likely it would not be me who would need to reinstate. The fitter got the key of the site foreman and turned supply back on. Lucky for me, the management blamed the fitter, but I still felt I should have not left the key with the site foreman. Lucky no one injured.

But after the distribution unit, easy enough to either lock off a MCB/RCBO or drop tails. But when the fault is the DB, that option is not open to us. And my domestic working was rare, it simply did not pay enough, so even before 2004 and Part P, my working on domestic was very low, and the whole reason for Part P was it is not in the main a work place, so does not come under health and safety at work act.

Not sure today with so much work being done from home, and visiting tradesman from the boiler service man, social care, postlady, milkman, etc. The Englishman's home is no longer his castle.

It is in this case clear, one can't simply write out the EICR with code C1's, it needs to be made safe, would a text to the Estate Agents, followed of course by a phone call, be enough? Interesting to hear how the situation was dealt with?

Well if you switch off a supply to inspect it then before you switch on it must be safe to do so, if you have not permission to do so then you must leave it switched off, ensuring as far is reasonably practical that no one can reenergise it unless it is safe to do so. By telling them robustly enough not to do so (eating notices etc ) they decide to it is up to them so long as you have taken reasonable practical steps. You are not empowered to lock it off.

 

[ebee]

If you took further steps in order to prevent someone you reasonably judge to be mentally unstable from reenergising you would probably be found to be acting reasonably

 

[SUNRAY]

I got my box lid back about half hour ago.

DNO/energy supplier visited. I hadn't realised is wasn't an 'official meter' but that doesn't appear to be a problem, now replaced with a SM and isolator by the cut out, I didn't mention before C/O is 3ph in a brick built space used for rubbish bins feeding 4 properties. My colleague went in today to replaced CU and added water and gas bonding to CU (previousely directly to incoming PILC). The spare fuseway feeds a cable which looked to have been terminated directly into a cooker without isolating switch/cooker point, but just 'abandoned' behind the current gas cooker.

 

[securespark]

I always fit a DP switch for cookers and the like, but you don't have to.

 

[SUNRAY]

I always fit a DP switch for cookers and the like, but you don't have to.

I wouldn't consider doing anything else.

 

[SimonH2]

If the property is uninhabitable because of substandard electrics like that then the landlord is in breach of his responsibilities. What happens next does depend to a certain extent on contract wording. Absent anything saying otherwise, the landlord has contracted to provide a swellibg - if it's uninhabitable then the landlord has a responsibility to find an alternative at the landlord's expense (a decent insurance policy includes such costs).
The contract might well include some limitation, and may state that the contract would be considered "frustrated" (and hence terminated) if (e.g.) the property burns down. But I doubt any tribunal would accept frustration for something that's so clearly the landlord's fault.

What should be more worrying is that the tenant could apply for a rent repayment order - and possibly be awarded 3x everything they've paid while in the property. Given the blatant disregard for the law and tenant's safety, I could well imagine the court awarding tbe full 3x.
Yes, if the landlord gets something wrong (in this case a clear breach of regs by having no EICR, plus clearly dangerous electrics), the tenant can claim up to three times the rent they've paid. I've read of a few cases where this has gone into 5 digit amounts.

 

[ericmark]

Glad it is sorted, as to having permission to turn off, can't see how one could do an EICR without turning off the supply.

 

[SUNRAY]

I forgot to mention on Friday; my colleague showed me the EICR. It showed as C1 - Cover missing. Exposed live parts. Just as had been read out to me initially.

 

[ebee]

Glad it is sorted, as to having permission to turn off, can't see how one could do an EICR without turning off the supply.

I agree with that, it probably can not, so permission should be sought. A simple saying "I Shall be turning all the power off briefly at least once!" and an acknowledgement such as "OK" should suffice in my humble opinion.

 

[JohnW2]

I agree with that, it probably can not, so permission should be sought. A simple saying "I Shall be turning all the power off briefly at least once!" and an acknowledgement such as "OK" should suffice in my humble opinion.

I also agree - but, in relation to some of the things that have been discussed, that "simple saying" to obtain implied permission (to switch off the power) should perhaps be extended by "... and, under certain circumstance, I may not switch it back on" ??