Caught Red Handed

[Freddie]

My point is the effect those people.

 

[Freddie]

These could have been the next Brady and Hindley ( for those who dont know- murderers of the 1960's who should have been strung up )




Alan Webster had a "malign influence" over Tanya French
Two babysitters have been jailed for raping a 12-week-old baby and taking pictures of the abuse.
Alan Webster, 40, and his girlfriend Tanya French, 19, both from Hatfield in Hertfordshire, pleaded guilty to rape and making indecent images.

Webster was given a life sentence at St Albans Crown Court; French was jailed for five years.

International law enforcers alerted police after Webster downloaded 7,000 indecent images from the internet.

There are no words to express the abhorrence such offending generates

Judge Findlay Baker

The baby's mother was unaware of the abuse until detectives visited her home after finding photographs detailing the abuse at Webster's home.

Sentencing Webster, Judge Findlay Baker said the offences were committed against the "most vulnerable victim - a little baby".

"There are no words to express the abhorrence such offending generates," he added.

'Malign influence'

Sentencing French, he said: "You did not shrink away from the acts in which you joined, but looked forward to them."

But he said French was also a victim and had come under Webster's "malign influence" and was to some extent "corrupted by him".

French admitted four charges of rape, five indecent assaults, two charges of permitting indecent images to be taken of children and two counts of making indecent images of the child in February and March 2004.

Webster admitted one charge of rape, four indecent assaults, two charges of permitting indecent images to be taken of children and two counts of making indecent images of children.

Webster also admitted a separate charge of indecently assaulting a 14-year-old girl and seven offences of possessing child abuse images.

 

[Moz]

"But he said French was also a victim and had come under Webster's "malign influence" and was to some extent "corrupted by him".
she will be out in a few years
what a joke ... both should of got LIFE an then let the other jailbirds sort them out

 

[Richardp]

well I think Hindley was a victom of Brady they commited the worst possible crime so you cant put it into perspective.

 

[Freddie]

Still kept her and still keep him in relative luxury for the rest of their lives.

Central heated cells--carpets--television and video--cooked food---free health care--money--readable litriture--newspapers--telephone calls----free clothe's--etc etc etc.

Most pensioners who fought in WW2 abroad and at home--paid tax's all their life and worked all their life and get a pitance in pension money dont get what these two b#stards get and got

So how do all you all the do-gooders justify that sh#t.

 

[Richardp]

So the self righteous and pc priks amongst yourselves better word your replies good

**** off prick

 

[markie]

softus just a couple of quick points regarding a return post to me, 1st when you said ( you have'nt really said very much that can be disagreed with ) its quite simple really, i am in favour of the death penalty, for child killers, and you are not. so we will agree to disagree on that point 2nd ( forum rules, elaborate ) BAS regarding me not being able to read properly, i can read but a s**t speller. did you not mean being able to understand others post properly ?

 

[Softus]

softus just a couple of quick points regarding a return post to me, 1st when you said ( you have'nt really said very much that can be disagreed with ) its quite simple really, i am in favour of the death penalty, for child killers, and you are not. so we will agree to disagree on that point

OK - understood, and am content to agree to disagree on that.

2nd ( forum rules, elaborate ) BAS regarding me not being able to read properly, i can read but a s**t speller. did you not mean being able to understand others post properly ?

No, I was being unnecessarily oblique in an unnecessarily complex way.

Firstly, I was suggesting that you hadn't read the topic, because you were going over old and well worn ground.

Secondly, and this is minor picky thing, you made two posts, in quick succession, that were both replies to me. The forum rules discourage this, because it makes topics harder to read.

I have never meant to imply that you can't understand other people's posts, but I do note that you've ignored two of my points viz:

1. Do you actively lobby your MP and campaign for the changes that you wish for?

2. You implied that you would like to place a bet - was this just a figure of speech?

 

[pickles]

Still kept her and still keep him in relative luxury for the rest of their lives.

Central heated cells--carpets--television and video--cooked food---free health care--money--readable litriture--newspapers--telephone calls----free clothe's--etc etc etc.

So the self righteous and pc priks amongst yourselves better word your replies good

Public Figures of hate, no liberty, people spitting in your food, permanently looking over your shoulder for people trying to stab, scald or batter you. Same 4 walls for ever, no real contact with the outside world. No exercise but walking in circles in a prison yard on your own segregated from other prisoners. No relationships. Nothing to do except sit in your cell thinking about your crime and the life you haven't got or doing some useless distance learning course.

Try not leaving your house for two weeks and see how you feel. Prisons are vile places, in case you hadn't noticed it's where they put all the psychos who make you shudder when you see them on the news. being executed is the easy way out

Any way lets talk about prevention not punishment..........oh I forgot, we might have to pay more tax for that so lets just keep banging on about stringing people up it's cheaper, unless of course you or yours are the next victim

 

[Softus]

Hang on a mo Freddie - I'd like to answer this, but I still feel the need to know what you think I wrote that was demeaning towards animals.

You might think this an unimportant point, but it isn't - if you criticise me for something I haven't written, then decline to expand on the accusation, what confidence can I have that you're reading what I'm writing?

Sorry Softus got you Quoting Markie --all mixed up--really late night --diverted flights --2 airport trips in pea soup fog etc--3am knackered--where am i?

Fair play - it happens.

But on subject you would have done the same as me, which wasnt legal and failed and shook him up big time--did it stop him?-- i'll never know, but she fell pregnant afterwards and a long sad story but i will die wondering.

My point is the effect those people have for their little perversions joking aside reaches deep and long and who knows who else.

Right then, on to the nub of this one. There are three questions arising from this whole death penalty thing:

1. What would I want to do to a child-molester?
2. What would I actually do?
3. What rights of the criminal should the law uphold and preserve?

The difficulties faced by the "main them then kill them slowly" fraternity, who've been posting on this topic, are that they (maybe you?) refuse to recognise the difference between the three questions. Personally, I find them very easy to answer:

1. I would want to do him/her severe damage.
2. I don't know what I would actually do.
3. He/she should be protected from harm, but incarcerated for life.

Which all goes to provide the answer to this one:

Softus if you went out with a girl and you found out her dad was at her and it was proved to you and you saw how it affected her what would you do? bearing the time of 1974 and your age.

This is an horrendous situation to find yourself in, especially given the uncertainty about the outcome since. I know exactly what I would want to do, but it is this knowledge that convinces me, a reasonably non-violent person, that the existing deterrents against violent retribution are, if anything, only just adequate.

 

[markie]

softus regarding lobbying no, and the bet thing is just a figure of speech, not a betting man

 

[noodlz]

It appears that there is quite a distinct schism on this issue here. Is it really so clear cut?

Parents whose child is the victim may not simply take the law into their own hands from the perspective of emotional retribution. If overwhelming evidence establishes a perpetrator to be guilty, yet due to technicalities or clever lawyers' manoeuvring they are freed, what is the answer? Are they free and to be allowed possibly to take a position working with minors without even a word of warning? Some would perceive it as their duty to do everything within their power to ensure that the individual does not do this again to another even if it means going outside the law. Sometimes the law, if followed to the letter, can be twisted to make a mockery of what it proposes to uphold. I do not advocate the actions of the baying lynch-mob, but where laws fail us I can understand the reaction and would not be so quick to condemn someone seeking justice from my ivory tower. Maybe the hard thing then would be to do nothing or maybe in certain circumstances it would be to do something?

Personally, I do not agree with the death penalty, but I do not see this as an absolute position. We live in a sanitised society where our meat is neatly packaged; most of us do not kill for our food, yet most of us eat it. Similarly, we wish to live in a peaceful, civilised society, yet do we not equally expect some unsavoury actions to be done in our name?

I generally agree with your basic positions Softus/BAS et al, but surely we have problems that are not being resolved satisfactorily through current means and all options must be examined with an open mind? Or is it a position cast in stone?

Softus, you asked Markie whether he actively lobbied his MP or campaigned for changes, well, seeing as how extensively you have written on this subject, may I ask if you do the same with regards to making life mean life for prison terms? If you do, all power to you for it, and, if achieved, this might well lessen the calls for capital punishment.

 

[masona]

Freddie, I'm sorry to hear of your parents hardship, the only thing I can say whether it will make any difference or not is that they do have freedom. Luxury inside prison?, maybe but I couldn't do it as it would be suicidal for me with no freedom as pickles post pointed it out.

A good understanding post from noodlz,

Sometimes the law, if followed to the letter, can be twisted to make a mockery of what it proposes to uphold. I do not advocate the actions of the baying lynch-mob, but where laws fail us I can understand the reaction and would not be so quick to condemn someone seeking justice from my ivory tower.

Glad to see another understanding poster as I for one wanted the death penatly at the time but changed my mind when I calmed down.

ps: I haven't read it all here but I'm pleased to see no insults here and it makes good reading from all difference opinions.

Personally, I do not agree with the death penatly, but I do not see this as an absolute position. We live in a sanitised society where our meat is neatly packaged; most of us do not kill for our food, yet most of us eat it. Similarly, we wish to live in a peaceful, civilised society, yet do we not equally expect some unsavoury actions to be done in our name?

Are meat eaters uncivilised killers for eating animals?

this should be a different topic with no reference to the DP

Exactly! I posted this from another thread and I disagree with NigelKing on this point, so why are people turning a blind eye when they think human beings are treated difference from animals?
Most of us eat them so does that make us uncivilised killers?

Is this difficult to answer?

 

[Freddie]

Still kept her and still keep him in relative luxury for the rest of their lives.

Central heated cells--carpets--television and video--cooked food---free health care--money--readable litriture--newspapers--telephone calls----free clothe's--etc etc etc.

So the self righteous and pc priks amongst yourselves better word your replies good

Public Figures of hate, no liberty, people spitting in your food, permanently looking over your shoulder for people trying to stab, scald or batter you. Same 4 walls for ever, no real contact with the outside world. No exercise but walking in circles in a prison yard on your own segregated from other prisoners. No relationships. Nothing to do except sit in your cell thinking about your crime and the life you haven't got or doing some useless distance learning course.

My heart bleeds for them.

 

[Softus]

Softus, you asked Markie whether he actively lobbied his MP or campaigned for changes, well, seeing as how extensively you have written on this subject, may I ask if you do the same with regards to making life mean life for prison terms? If you do, all power to you for it, and, if achieved, this might well lessen the calls for capital punishment.

A good and fair question. I'm ashamed to say that I've done very little, but I've done the minimum of Emailing Peter Lilley (local MP) about it. Having said that, I've never had one single reply or acknowledgement to any Emails I've ever sent him, so your question has now given me the impetus to chase it up...