Church of England

[user56565]

Do i really need to point you in the direction of previous posts? do you not read them?

i think your 'beef' with freddie etc started before i got involved in the general chat forum. now im not saying you are right, or he is right, its just that in this post, you seem to be the aggressor. if he did indeed say crap, then he should be confronted in that particular post, rather than in another (this one).

you are interpreting the passages like the extremeists are doing

no im not, this is actually what the koran says! you can indeed read the koran here: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
verses like the ones i quoted can't be misinterpreted, its very black and white. moderate muslims may choose to ignore them, but the verses are still there.

 

[kendor]

you said it there in the word "moderate" most muslims are of this ilk it's the extremeists that interpret literally or twist to their own purposes.

 

[user56565]

"moderate" most muslims are of this ilk

i disagree with you here. what evidence can you show to say that most muslims are moderate?? how do you, i, or anyone else know, how many muslims really trully are moderate or extremist?? you could poll them, but many extremists will pretend to be moderates.

the impression i get is that probably 20-30% uk muslims are sympathetic to the extremist cause in one way or another. what gives me that impression?? there'll be quite a lot of people in the muslim community who will have known these extremists, yet they did nothing to report them to the police and help prevent terrorism. worldwide terrorism in many countries is sponsored by 'richer' muslims here, and a couple of hundred people here can't have raised that much money.

once the government gets off its arse and starts deporting/imprisoning for life all these extremists, we'll get a more accurate picture of how serious and widespread the problem is.

it's the extremeists that interpret literally or twist to their own purposes.

extremists don't twist, they only wish to take the koran literally and wholly, as 'allah' intended them to. they would never misinterpret the koran, and they strive to keep it in it's original form. the fact is, islam is an intolerant and racist religion. the extremists are motivated completely by the koran and the life of muhammed. this is why people have talked about banning islam or why i have suggested changing the koran.

 

[kendor]

"moderate" most muslims are of this ilk

i disagree with you here. what evidence can you show to say that most muslims are moderate?? how do you, i, or anyone else know, how many muslims really trully are moderate or extremist?? you could poll them, but many extremists will pretend to be moderates.

the impression i get is that probably 20-30% uk muslims are sympathetic to the extremist cause in one way or another. what gives me that impression?? there'll be quite a lot of people in the muslim community who will have known these extremists, yet they did nothing to report them to the police and help prevent terrorism. worldwide terrorism in many countries is sponsored by 'richer' muslims here, and a couple of hundred people here can't have raised that much money.

once the government gets off its a**e and starts deporting/imprisoning for life all these extremists, we'll get a more accurate picture of how serious and widespread the problem is.

it's the extremeists that interpret literally or twist to their own purposes.

extremists don't twist, they only wish to take the koran literally and wholly, as 'allah' intended them to. they would never misinterpret the koran, and they strive to keep it in it's original form. the fact is, islam is an intolerant and racist religion. the extremists are motivated completely by the koran and the life of muhammed. this is why people have talked about banning islam or why i have suggested changing the koran.

ok maybe i'm guilty of assuming but then so are you in saying the majority, i can only base my comments on talking to people.

 

[user56565]

ok maybe i'm guilty of assuming but then so are you in saying the majority, i can only base my comments on talking to people.

i didn't say the majority, i said about 20-30%.
by discussing and listening to each other's points and sources of information and other facts, we will all eventually come to a reasonable assessment of the true level of extremism and 'moderatism' of muslims in the uk.
note that the government's own assessments will be biased toward a view of muslim moderatism, because they are out of touch with the normal person as such and won't see the everyday facts, because they don't want to **** off uk muslims (election votes), and also because they don't want to **** off foreign muslims (oil, world stability etc..).

 

[Freddie]

Are there any churches of england in Pakistan, Afghanistan etc???

I stand by anything i have said on this subject

 

[user56565]

and so you should

 

[AdamW]

I see this thread has gone totally off topic

OK, so we all know about the Church of England and the Roman Catholic churches. You may also know about the Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Lutherian and Coptic churches. You also have smaller churches like Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian. You can split the Christian faith into three large groups: Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox.

The Coptic church is the most popular church in the Arab Christian world. It is an orthodox church, there is a Coptic "pope", they have slightly different rituals and so forth. There is a large Coptic community in Australia, and a notable one over here. Most you would find in the UK are Sudanese or Egyption arabs.

CofE is found anywhere the English went. In the US it is called the "Episcapalian" church (presumably this stems from soon after independence, when they didn't want to say they were in the Church of "England").

RC is found anywhere catholics went.

Orthodox churches aren't so widespread outside their native countries as those countries weren't generally into conquest and empire.

As an aside I just googled for "Church of Pakistan", and there is one! It is part of the American Presbyterian church.

 

[Freddie]

Thats all correct Adam all different combinations of the same old dross.

Christianity has been in those muslim countries for as long and if not longer as it took over the what are described Pagan ( religions ? ) and mainly by force just as the muslim religion is doing today in some parts.

Truth is all religion ever means peace and the muslim one is no better and may be far worse if some idiots ever manage to use weapons on mass destruction in there arguments on whose god is the best.

The true followings of those regions have been largely wiped and the muslims are trying to finnish them off today.

The christians did the same here but you get the odd Pagan revival from time to time but its hard to find a virgin to sacrifice on the alter nowadays

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie, Christianity was there first, later to be supplanted by Islam. Of all the major religions, Islam is the youngest at some 1300 years, whereas Christianity is some 2000 years and Judaism at least some 3500 years.

 

[jtaunton]

I see this thread has gone totally off topic

Depends on if you think the topic was a genuine interest in churches in Pakistan and Afghanistan (possibly for a touring holiday), or just a thinly veiled excuse for yet another thread on the usual........

 

[Slogger]

so why do we need mosks or churches if they are going to be used for training camps ?

surely if you have a god to believe in he or she would be with you where ever you go

seeing as we dont seem to have many christian sucide bombers i say close all mosk traing camps and lets rehouse some refugees

far better use dont you think

kendor and jtaunton still havent answerd me on the 2050 islamic state

would you welcome it ? if the majority said that was the way to go

please dont get personal i am tired of childish behaviour thanks

 

[jasy]

The reason i put this post on was to find out if there was and if not the reasons why. Well it seems there are not that many and the reason being they are not tolerated. If a westerner wishes to live in a muslim country we have to live by their laws/ rules etc. For example women wearing head dress. There seems to have been a lot of talk on intergration and alot of problems stem from a strict muslim up bringing then meeting a much more relaxed english society...........well i have an answer. Just like we have to do in their countries.....LIKE it or LUMP it. If you don't like it no one is keeping you here. SOD off!

 

[Freddie]

The reason i put this post on was to find out if there was and if not the reasons why. Well it seems there are not that many and the reason being they are not tolerated. If a westerner wishes to live in a muslim country we have to live by their laws/ rules etc. For example women wearing head dress. There seems to have been a lot of talk on intergration and alot of problems stem from a strict muslim up bringing then meeting a much more relaxed english society...........well i have an answer. Just like we have to do in their countries.....LIKE it or LUMP it. If you don't like it no one is keeping you here. SOD off!

Totally agree Jasy mate, now just wait for the usuall stuff to start.

 

[jasy]

Yes i can see all the PC tos*ers sharpening their knives now mate