Common Sense at last.

[EFLImpudence]

So do you think that it's ok for a Muslim man to be targeted for a crime, just because he's Muslim and just have it labelled as a crime, not a hate crime? So it gets a lesser punishment?

Why would it get a lesser punishment? Does it?

Or have a Muslim walk down the street and have abuse shouted at them, just because he/she is Muslim? That's ok huh?

No it's not alright for anyone to have abuse shouted at them.

If you don't think that's ok then that is a good thing, makes you a nicer person. But there is similarities of what women put up with and have done for donkeys years just because they are women.

It's not alright, but are you really proposing idiots be punished - sent to jail if they don't pay a fine - for whistling.
Obviously physical abuse can be dealt with under normal existing laws.

The only thing I see different here with your reasoning is that you don't seem to like women.

I don't like the appaling misuse of words these days to brainwash people into thinking something is worse than it is and that something is being done when in reality that's all it is - wrong words.

You seem to have extensive knowledge of this treatment of women. I wonder how. I am beginning to suspect you are one.

 

[sodthisforfun]

Why would it get a lesser punishment? Does it?


No it's not alright for anyone to have abuse shouted at them.


It's not alright, but are you really proposing idiots be punished - sent to jail if they don't pay a fine - for whistling.
Obviously physical abuse can be dealt with under normal existing laws.


I don't like the appaling misuse of words these days to brainwash people into thinking something is worse than it is and that something is being done when in reality that's all it is - wrong words.

You seem to have extensive knowledge of this treatment of women. I wonder how. I am beginning to suspect you are one.

Yes, it can and does sometimes carry harsher punishment:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/yorkshire-an...gher-prison-sentences-hate-crime-perpetrators

I would imagine people get sent to jail for not paying a court fine, rather than whistling itself. If people are daft enough not pay the courts then that's up to them.

I should've known that this is all about just the word. As I've (and many other people) have said to you, the word thing is beyond your control. Best get used to it otherwise it will drive you nuts.

I wrote about prostitutes too, but am not one! I have a sister and had a right-on mum. Growing up I've told female friends to be careful getting home late, sometimes walking with them if very late. I looked out for my sister when she was younger and we both still lived at home, given her lifts at night, collected her from gigs etc. I listen to her, I listened to my friends growing up and their stories, I read, I learn, I have empathy. I have never cat-called a stranger (or ever felt the need), I have never been lewd (apart from in a joking manner with my partner). I try to treat people with dignity. I like women.

Simples.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Yes, it can and does sometimes carry harsher punishment:

If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a nob, I get 6 months for common assault.
If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a Muslim, I get 2 years for religiously aggravated common assault.
Same punch either way.

Explain why you think that double standard is OK. Try not to use double-think in your answer.

 

[sodthisforfun]

If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a nob, I get 6 months.
If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a Muslim, I get 2 years.

Explain why you think that double standard is OK. Try not to use double-think in your answer.

Double think? WTF does that mean?

Up to the police & courts to prove that it was a racist crime. And besides, safest of all? Don't punch people even if they are knobs.

Question for you: How about the simple fact that racism needs to be stopped. Do you think that the threat of a harsher punishment will have any effect? For example, I'd like to see kids who are caught carrying acid or a big knife an immediate criminal record and perhaps jail time. Why? So they get the bloomin message that it's NOT ok.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Double think? WTF does that mean?

Double think

Up to the police & courts to prove that it was a racist crime.

Why should it be a crime to hate people of a certain race? Should it be a crime to hate people over 6 feet tall? Or a crime to hate black cats? What makes race so special?

How about the simple fact that racism needs to be stopped.

Racism cannot ever be 'stopped'. However, there is less racism in this country than ever in history, yet we are told it now needs to be a crime. Why do you think it is OK to punich people for what they *think* about someone?

 

[sodthisforfun]

Double think


Why should it be a crime to hate people of a certain race? Should it be a crime to hate pet cats?


Racism cannot ever be 'stopped'. However, there is less racism in this country than ever in history, yet we are told the punishments need to be made harsher than ever in history. Why do you think that is OK?

Why is it that people have real trouble understanding that it's not a crime to hate, a hate crime is it's a crime motivated by prejudice.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Why is it that people have real trouble understanding that it's not a crime to hate, it's a crime motivated by prejudice.

If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a nob, I get 6 months for common assault.
If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a Muslim, I get 24 months for religiously aggravated common assault.

Why is it that you have real trouble understanding that you're giving someone 24-6=18 extra months in jail because their predjudicial motivation was religious instead of secular, i.e. 18 months in jail for the nature of their thoughts. That's thoughtcrime.

 

[sodthisforfun]

If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a nob, I get 6 months for common assault.
If I punch a Muslim because I think he's a Muslim, I get 24 months for religiously aggravated common assault.

Why is it that you have real trouble understanding that you're giving someone 24-6=18 extra months in jail because of their predjudicial motivation, i.e. what they *thought*. 18 months in jail for wrong think.

As already said

Do you think that the threat of a harsher punishment will have any effect?

By the way, am pretty sure you're wrong on this. Unless you can point me to a link please?

However, there is less racism in this country than ever in history,

 

[Yafo]

Racism cannot ever be 'stopped'. However, there is less racism in this country than ever in history, yet we are told it now needs to be a crime. Why do you think it is OK to punich people for what they *think* about someone?

Do you really think so?

For various reasons racism is on a real rise right now, fuelled by ight wing propoganda amongst others. Look at how the country is so divided over Brexit, and then look at 1 of the main reasons for the result!

Nothing wrong with liking or disliking people of any race. The issue is when people like or dislike (and act on it) because of race.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

By the way, am pretty sure you're wrong on this. Unless you can point me to a link please?

200 years ago we ran business that traded in black slaves.
70 years ago guest houses would advertise 'no blacks'. People would refuse to be seen by Indian doctors.
60 years ago white families would move out of a street if Caribbeans moved in.
50 years ago Alf Garnet was making jokes about nig nogs on national TV.
40 years ago skinheads roamed the estates, pakibashing. Police were known to beat black suspects in the cells. Sometimes to death.
Today we have black history month, BAME subsidies, and BMA swingers nights.

http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/featured/2014/08/the-decline-of-racial-prejudice-in-britain/

But sure, believe we're more racist today. It suits your ideology if not the facts.

Do you really think so?

Do you really think you can eliminate all human beings from irrationally disliking people who look different from themselves?

For various reasons racism is on a real rise right now

Based on what evidence

 

[sodthisforfun]

Why is it that you have real trouble understanding that you're giving someone 24-6=18 extra months in jail because their predjudicial motivation was religious instead of secular, i.e. 18 months in jail for the nature of their thoughts. That's thoughtcrime.

You really do have trouble understanding what a hate crime is. A hate crime is MOTIVATED by prejudice. This means if they weren't prejudice they'd probably not have committed the crime. It's not illegal to have bad thoughts however, I do not have a problem with people given harsher punishment if they do commit crime because they're racist ****s or whatever.

If the possibility of a harsher punishment stops and makes people think about their actions, and question their warped way of thinking then am all for it. Nobody is forced to commit a crime after all. I question you actually that you think this is a bad thing and think that it's 'thought police'.

 

[sodthisforfun]

200 years ago we ran business that traded in black slaves.
70 years ago guest houses would advertise 'no blacks'. People would refuse to be seen by Indian doctors.
60 years ago white families would move out of a street if Caribbeans moved in.
50 years ago Alf Garnet was making jokes about nig nogs on national TV.
40 years ago skinheads roamed the estates, pakibashing. Police were known to beat black suspects in the cells. Sometimes to death.
Today we have black history month, BAME subsidies, and BMA swingers nights.

But sure, believe we're more racist today. It suits your ideology if not the facts.

So you don't have a link then?

Racism is now on the rise, so is the fact that people think it's more acceptable to voice the racism.

Yes, things are better from many many years ago, that's because we live and learn and evolve as a society. So while you are saying that we are better than from 70 years ago, why do you have such a problem with the continuation of learning what is acceptable in todays times? If it WASN'T an issue, why do we have hate crimes at all?

 

[Gerrydelasel]

You really do have trouble understanding what a hate crime is. A hate crime is MOTIVATED by prejudice.

Yes, we all know what a hate crime is. George Orwell taught us that in school.
You really do have trouble understanding the point: why do we need separate categories for:
1: crime; e.g. punching someone for a non religious reason
2: hate crime; e.g. punching someone for a religious reason

If you want to discourage people from punching, why do you need a 4x longer sentence for one sort of punch than another?

 

[Yafo]

Based on what evidence

Look around and listen. Then try a bit of research, lots available on the subject. Here is 1

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...e-referendum-even-allowing-for-other-factors/

 

[Yafo]

Yes, we all know what a hate crime is. George Orwell taught us that in school.
You really do have trouble understanding the point: why do we need separate categories for:
1: crime; e.g. punching someone for a non religious reason
2: hate crime; e.g. punching someone for a religious reason

If you want to discourage people from punching, why do you need a 4x longer sentence for one sort of punch than another?

Why does any crime have different levels of punishment for different crimes?

Assault is bad, even if there is a reason. Assault purely because of a persons race, you work it out ?