Concerning CET recondition pcb's

[Tibbot]

The trade in repaired parts is a reflection of the industry. If manufacturers want to rob their installers by poaching customers and hiking parts prices to make them uncompetitive then people will continue to forage for what they can get.

I find with aftersales work there's better business to be had working against the makers rather than with them.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Repaired & recycled parts are nothing new and I'm not sure there is anything illegal about them. They are not snide copies after all.

Big difference between repaired and recycled. Geoff refused to answer what the difference is between repaired and refurbished.

A lot of boiler manufacturers are very clear what their policy is towards this kind of thing.

You are assuming the responsibility for the safety of the boiler if you fit anything not manufacturer approved.

I wonder if CET's - or any other of these refurb places - have the correct insurance? I sure as shit don't as was discussed with Gas Safe recently when i was asked to design the gas draw off from an anaerobic digester.

Simples.


Cleaning up a few dried joints is totally difference to replacing components.

 

[Tibbot]

You are assuming the responsibility for the safety of the boiler if you fit anything not manufacturer approved.

Dan, I don't know how old you are but responsibility falls on me whenever anything has gone wrong in life. That has been my experience.

 

[mfarrow]

I doubt it's rocket science that these guys are up to.

A large percentage of electronics failures are due to dry joints - soldered connections which have become detached over time due to heat, vibration and movement. 2 boiler PCBs, a car ECU, a Hi-Fi, and a TV all got years of ongoing service following attention of these. The other failures are typically due to failed passive components such as electrolytic capacitors, which are industry standard and have the sizes etc written on the side so you can replace them with exactly the same spec component.

There's very little chance of changing the logic of the component by doing the above, most of that is undertaken by 'chips' which will take 40+ years to degrade in most applications.

To answer those questioning modern PCB assembly, look up capacitor plague on wikipedia. A typical example of how volatile electronics can be even from the factory. One failed copy of a recipe doubtless caused countless premature failure of assembled board, including those in otherwise working boilers.

 

[Dan Robinson]

If you fit an OEM part and it FUBARs, killing someone, I doubt very much you would sit there with your hands up saying "fair cop guv".

.

If I fit a soldered joint and it fails, that is my fault. If I fit a pressfit joint - as per the instructions - and it fails, that isn't my fault and a claim goes to the manufacturer. Which is precisely why I use the stuff on larger jobs. And precisely why I would not entertain using a recon PCB.

I can see a point in recon fans - they are not the last line of defence on a boiler and should one fail or not work to spec, the board (assuming some gibbon hasn't been playing with it) will have other safety protocols built in.

 

[Tibbot]

If you fit an OEM part and it FUBARs, killing someone, I doubt very much you would sit there with your hands up saying "fair cop guv".

If I fit a soldered joint and it fails, that is my fault. If I fit a pressfit joint - as per the instructions - and it fails, that isn't my fault and a claim goes to the manufacturer.

You won't get any manufacturer to sit there and go 'fair cop' either.

Fixing faults is one thing, but when it's a claim for damage to property or injury to persons you are on your own mate. Your merchant, manufacturer friends and your insurance underwriter will find any way out they can.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You are wrong.

If something horrid happened it would go to HSE. If it was a component failure it would be found and dealt with accordingly.

If you get a flood, then yes it is a little trickier, but hopefully no one got hurt and it is down to the insurance companies to battle it out.

 

[Tibbot]

Dan, I don't doubt your ability in the trade, but you are showing your naivety in the ways of the world.

When it comes to paying out, the people you want to settle your bill are not plumbing and heating pro's or anything to do with our trade. They are hard nosed, faceless snakes who'll tie you up in legal disclaimers and other associated sh*t.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Dan, I don't doubt your ability in the trade, but you are showing your naivety in the ways of the world.

When it comes to paying out, the people you want to settle your bill are not plumbing and heating pro's or anything to do with our trade. They are hard nosed, faceless snakes who'll tie you up in legal disclaimers and other associated sh*t.

I've had Kingspan pay out a sizeable amount when a cylinder they fabricated for me out of the wrong grade of material flooded a customers house. That involved relocating and supplying a new cylinder a long with all the associated pipe work and wiring.

Also had two other cylinders split seems. Both times I was paid in full by the manufacturer to supply and fit an alternative manufacturer's product. As well as remove their failed units.


I think Kingspan is a big enough organisation .

I'm not as naive as you might think .

Brandon Hire have a rather snotty letter winging their way to them as well this week if I find the time.

 

[Tibbot]

They would have settled in a 'Without Prejudice' style compromise. You won't get a manufacturer to admit 'guilty mate how far would you like me to bend over?'

I've claimed myself but have some experience dealing with and defending my employer from very large claims. Without going into detail, if not victory, then compromise from the jaws of defeat is the worst I've managed with no legal training whatsoever.

PS. Perhaps not making myself clear. See what happens (hope it never does) if you're ever involved in a gas explosion, fire, fatality, structural collapse etc. Floods? building dries out fix & redecorate, could almost do that myself.

 

[Dan Robinson]

We shall have to agree to differ then .

A settlement is a settlement as long as the "victim" doesn't lose out.

Would you even want to risk it with a refurb board that controls ALL the primary safety functions of the boiler?

You have no idea what has been done to it or how it has been tested. There is no back up and from the sounds of it very little interest.

At least with an OEM board you somewhere to go. Refurb... it is inly your 'arris swinging in the breeze.

 

[Tibbot]

The only time I've ever known a PCB to become dangerous is where water has dripped on it or when someone replaced a milliamp with a heavy amp fuse. Otherwise they've all simply stopped the boiler working. I'd worry far more if there were repaired gas valves, high limit stats, PRV's or T&P valves.

 

[bazdaman]

What about the worster pcb fault where burner fires without fan and melts the ****er id rather that be OEM PART THAN A RECON

 

[Dan Robinson]

Profiles kept the Gas Valve open too IIRC.

Suprima boards could do all sorts


It only takes one. Once. Which is my point. Unnecessary risk IMO.

 

[Tibbot]

Is that a design fault? If so the customer will want to have you if you didn't make it known, new board or not.