Concerning CET recondition pcb's

[Dan Robinson]

well, actually he's not - hit by a motoebike in Bandung, the handlebars went through his abdomen and ripped out his intestines - and multiple fractures of his right arm

That does indeed suck huge hairy plums and I feel for him and your family. Fingers crossed!!!!



My big point has been made several times. But you are avoiding it.

Hopefully my previous post will help a little.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

"engineering judgement"

That reads like a euphemism for bending the rules. Why is that OK for covering up for Intergas' non-approved application but not for CET's?

All has nothing to do with manufacturer's declarations of conformity which Geoff is skirting - poorly.

Manufacturers declarations of conformity are nothing to do with me, the board ALREADY has a CE mark


But then he and I have been there before haven't we? .


He can test all he likes, but will he declare conformity?

why ? its not a new board it had a CE mark when manufactured

Repeatedly he says his replaced components are better... but who says?

like for like or better better means e.g. sealed bearings rather than shielded, capacitors rated at 105C rather than 85 C, resistor with higher power rating - the pcb still conforms to the original spec

My background is in military and space hardware - I understand these things which seem to be beyond you

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Dan dan pearl white van man ...

But the moment CET change a component on the board, it no longer conforms to the manufacturer's deceleration.

YOu're not meant to be driving them around and subjecting them to "g" forces !

It is Implicit in the fact that I am selling it with a warranty

As I explained, if I replace a component like for like, it conforms


So who will declare it is fit and safe for purpose and will operate as designed?

Geoff sure as shit won't

of course I do, by implication

 

[Dan Robinson]

Your background is irrelevent.

The board was declared by the manufacturer as per their production specs. THe moment one of your people start changing bits it no longer conforms to what the manufacturer have declared.

You might buy a GS2-R-24 relay, but will you stand by the purchaser if that relay caused a board fault (for arguments sake a gas valve held open after the OH stat kicked in) which subsequently toasted the end user's kitchen?

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Profiles kept the Gas Valve open too I

I have only ever fitted OEM boards. I and one of my engineers have gone over plenty of Potty boards for their dry joints. But that is different to changing bits of boards.


so you've repaired boards - you've prolly changed fuses - they are component parts. The difference is that you don't saeem to understand anything about electronics ... I do

It doesn't get worse. If by that you are calling me a hypocrite.

and a window licker

 

[Dan Robinson]

Dan dan pearl white van man ...

Colour blind are we?

YOu're not meant to be driving them around and subjecting them to "g" forces !

eeerrrmmm???? Do they teleport themselves to the boiler housing?

It is Implicit in the fact that I am selling it with a warranty

As I explained, if I replace a component like for like, it conforms

Where is it implicit? Your T's and C's were written by a complete ******. They refer only to workmanship and not component failure. They mention nothing about replacing parts of the board and subsequent shifting of liabilities from the manufacturer to CET or the purchaser.

of course I do, by implication

Liability is restricted to repair and recondition or replacement of the item.

Cowboys.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Your background is irrelevent.

The board was declared by the manufacturer as per their production specs. THe moment one of your people start changing bits it no longer conforms to what the manufacturer have declared.

You might buy a GS2-R-24 relay, but will you stand by the purchaser if that relay caused a board fault (for arguments sake a gas valve held open after the OH stat kicked in) which subsequently toasted the end user's kitchen?


oh do **** off you tedious trolll - I'm off to bed.I have work to do tomorrow

 

[Dan Robinson]

We'll take that as a no then?

Nighty night.

 

[Dan Robinson]

PCB's are cleaned and tested to ensure the components are reliable and if the components are obsolete, we can reverse engineer and then redesign the circuitry to give modern technology to old systems

The PCBs can be redesigned at a fraction of the cost.

Every product is cleaned, repaired and reconditioned by hand.

Seeing as Radon's word of the evening is "implicit". In that last quoted line from his website, it is "implicit" that repairing and reconditioning are two difference things.

The site seems to be down at the minute (surprise?), but I am sure his price listings call EVERYTHING "refurbished", so that is four different processes

 

[Dan Robinson]

Seems CETltd.com has been taken down completely.

http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.cetltd.com

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/cetltd.com.html

T's & C's:

We are reliant on the prompt return of old units to maintain a cost effective and efficient service to our customers. If old units are not returned to CET within 7 days we will charge customers for a new unit (at the current HRPC trade price).

Items ordered are only refundable in the event that they are defective, not if they were incorrectly ordered for any reason, misdiagnosed or no longer required.

Liability is restricted to repair and recondition or replacement of the item.

This is a reconditioning / repair and exchange service, we are not a merchant.

In the event that we send items out “up front”, the customer has the responsibility to return the old item within seven days of receipt of the item from us.

Unless otherwise stated, all items repaired and reconditioned carry a 12 month warranty against faulty workmanship on our part. This does not include damage caused to parts supplied by mishandling or other faulty parts.

Items are repaired and reconditioned on a “best endeavour” basis. Items found to be beyond economic repair and recondition will only be returned on receipt of the carriage charge.

All items are despatched by courier. Items will normally arrive at the customers address before 17:30 the day following despatch. (Items despatched on Friday will arrive on Monday.)

Items considered to be defective or incorrectly supplied must be notified to us within three days of receipt.

All prices posted on this website are provided exclusive of VAT and Delivery and inclusive of VAT and Delivery. The Delivery charge is £8.00

Google cache can be a real barsteward when you have something to hide.

 

[mfarrow]

You might buy a GS2-R-24 relay, but will you stand by the purchaser if that relay caused a board fault (for arguments sake a gas valve held open after the OH stat kicked in) which subsequently toasted the end user's kitchen?

Dan

It sounds like you're implying that works or repairs should not be undertaken on assemblies unless by those working for or authorised by the manufacturer and using manufacturers parts, owing to risks of the type you've highlighted above?

If that was the case the repair of anything industry would not exist, car dealerships (say) would have extraordinary monopoly and all white good repairers have authorisations from each manufacturer.

This is regardless of background, qualification or understanding (collectively called competence) of those undertaking the repair.

 

[Dan Robinson]

No, I'm asking if Geoff will assume the liability.

If you put an aftermarket tuning box in your car, do you expect the manufacturer to honour the warranty on the injectors? Even though though the Tuning house claims it is better?

Nope.

 

[UpgradeME]

I come from a different industry but I've just read this thread and believe the same principles apply here.... Here's how it works in my industry:

1) Manufacturer R&D's a new product (e.g. Boiler)

2) New product is sent to independent 3rd party lab for testing against all necessary EU standards e.g. LVD (2006/95/EC), Gas Appliances Directive (2009/142/EEC) etc etc

3) Responsible person at manufacturer uses results from 2) to give them the reassurance to sign a Declaration of Conformity (DoC).

NOTE: Where safety is concerned, the Responsible person in 3) above is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE (hence the need to do 2) as it will be them, not the company who is ultimately hold to account, regardless if it's Ltd or Plc)

If a 3rd party was to repair / refurbish / modify the PCB in any way, it would have to go through 2) above to be approved by the manufacturer. IMHO there is no way that a manufacturer would accept liability for any 3rd party repair to OEM PCBs and no 3rd party can claim a modified PCB complies with the manufacturers DoC unless they have the reams of test results as carried out in 2) above.

Just my opinion on the topic from someone who has bought 1,000's of products to market which have PCBs in them!

The fact that a replacement component has the same markings on the outside has no bearing on if it complies with DoC. The supply chain of said components in not known to the manufacturer or likely to the 3rd party, just because it says "Abc" doesn't mean it really is "Abc" or built to the same standards as original "Abc"!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Exactly. . Yet the owner of CET is saying that he sources the same or better quality components and that is all that is necessary.



In truth I don't care if his wares are better or worse than the originals.

It is the trail of culpability should there be a problem that I am interested in.

 

[UpgradeME]

It is the trail of culpability should there be a problem that I am interested in.

I'm no legal expert, however I would say that if a competent person knowingly fitted a 3rd party modified PCB (in whatever form that takes), they would be liable to the customer (I doubt you can legally disclaim against it either from a safety POV). The competent person would then make a case against the 3rd party that modified it, perhaps for negligence, false claims etc

Unless it can be proven that the same fault exists on a unmodified product, the manufacturer won't be liable.

Just my opinion....