Consumer unit breakers

[davebullocklive]

deleted

 

[JohnW2]

... as a matter of interest, who answered all your questions when you were doing those jobs?

Retired family member

Fair enough. Do I take it that this person is no longer available to advise/assist you now?

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

The garage has its own 4 mcb rcd consumer unit and currently runs 2 double strip lights 2 security outside flood lights and 3 double sockets (in ring) supply cable to cu is 1 2.5mm

The cable is undersized, and even if a ring, it is still wrong to connect a consumer unit in that way.

Therefore you now have 3 out of 5 circuits which are unsafe.

 

[JohnW2]

The garage has its own 4 mcb rcd consumer unit and currently runs 2 double strip lights 2 security outside flood lights and 3 double sockets (in ring) supply cable to cu is 1 2.5mm

Where does that 2.5mm² feed come from? What size MCB does the garage CU have for the sockets circuit, what size cable feeds those sockets and what load do those 3 double sockets supply (one phone charge, 6 large power tools, or something in between)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ekmdgrf]

The garage has its own 4 mcb rcd consumer unit and currently runs 2 double strip lights 2 security outside flood lights and 3 double sockets (in ring) supply cable to cu is 1 2.5mm

The cable is undersized, and even if a ring, it is still wrong to connect a consumer unit in that way.

Therefore you now have 3 out of 5 circuits which are unsafe.

It's perhaps a little premature to safe it's unsafe. Assuming the upstream protection is adequate for the current carrying capacity of the cable it's not necessarily unsafe. It's not necessarily usable either.

 

[flameport]

Its on a 32A MCB with 2.5mm cable.

 

[AndyPRK]

It just gets better and better.


The garage CU is supplied off the house ring, and the OP wishes to move the garage onto its own MCB. (I thought it was just sockets, but clearly there is another CU in the garage).

As I understood it the "new" CU was going into the garage. Is that correct?
I guess all could be combined ? or maybe kept separate.


Could we have a pic of the garage CU please ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm surprised that no one has suggested that an electrician should be employed.

Can anyone help me build my large hadron collider as I don't have a clue?

 

[JohnW2]

I'm surprised that no one has suggested that an electrician should be employed.

I think everyone here has made that suggestion, very strongly, many times, including offerings from you-know-who in emboldened large font text!

The latest 'probing' (at least that from me) has been aimed at getting a feel for exactly how many things the OP has got very wrong in his mind/plans!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Basically, what you are saying is that unless he (or anyone else) is prepared to "do everything properly" then we should not point out any faults.

No, indeed point out all of the faults and for each one say "that's why you need an electrician" rather than say "this is how you should do it".

How on earth can not doing things properly be OK?

I'm with John on this, sometimes you have to accept that something isn't going to be done right, but we may be able to influence someone so it's done "less badly".

John and I will never agree on that - I do not, and will never, think that it can in any way be a responsible, duty-of-care action to encourage people to do work which is beyond their competence.

True competence is essential.

Understanding, genuinely understanding what you're doing is essential.

Following instructions to do things without knowing why is unacceptable.

Do you :
a) Take the approach that we must not in any way say anything other than get an electrician - even though it's clear he is never going to do that.
or
b) Point out that it's a fire just waiting to happen.

Both.

b) and therefore that means he should get an electrician.

Saying nothing would be failing in my duty of care.

Giving somebody sub-standard advice would be failing in my duty of care.

If I believe that the best advice is "get an electrician" then that's what I will do, and what I will not do is to give second-rate advice.

Please note though that I (nearly?) always give people the information that they need to learn the things they must know. Look back at my earlier posts in this topic and you'll see that I just did that.

It was only when it became clear that the OP had absolutely no intention of acquiring the necessary competence did I start saying he should get an electrician.

You seem to be saying that you'd let him find out the hard way rather than have any interaction other than "get an electrician". Presumably you'd sleep soundly even if you saw on the news a few days later that a family had died in a house fire caused by dodgy electrics to a new hob ? Presumably you'd also never consider whether you had had an opportunity to avoid those deaths happening ?

I'd sleep as soundly as any analogy you care to think of, because I would know that I'd given him the best possible advice. That he chose to ignore it would be his responsibility not mine.

OTOH I would not sleep soundly if that fire happened because an incompetent have-a-go hero decided he could do electrical work on the basis of asking on the internet how to do things he didn't understand, and I was one of the ones who encouraged or facilitated him doing things he didn't understand.

I guess this poem means nothing to you ?

If you see a risk and walk away,
Then hope you never have to say,
“I could have saved a life that day,
But I chose to look the other way.”

But I'm not saying nothing/looking the other way/walking away.

I'm saying "get an electrician", as that is what he should do. That is the only safe thing to do.

It is the only advice he should be given.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Rewired my old house

How did you manage to do that properly when you clearly don't know how to do even the most basic circuit design work?

I've a fair idea what I'm doing

Why have all your questions given the opposite impression?

Done consumer board in several my old garages

How did you do all of the testing?

Could you tell us what tests you did, in what sequence, and with what equipment?

 

[JohnW2]

I'm with John on this, sometimes you have to accept that something isn't going to be done right, but we may be able to influence someone so it's done "less badly".

John and I will never agree on that - I do not, and will never, think that it can in any way be a responsible, duty-of-care action to encourage people to do work which is beyond their competence.

I don't think we do disagree about what you have actually written there. I agree that it never appropriate to 'encourage' people do do something which is beyond their competence and I agree that, on the contrary, we should do all we can to discourage them.

However, in a general sense (not, as I've said, at least as far as I am concerned, in relation to the OP in this thread) what Simon and I are talking about is the situation in which it is quite clear that, without any 'encouragement' and despite discouragement, someone is going to attempt to do something beyond their competence. Attempting to reduce the risks, or consequences of those risk, in that situation is rather different.

By analogy .... no doctor would 'encourage' someone to smoke, drink excessively, use drugs, eat badly or exercise too little - but, on the contrary, would do all they could to discourage such behaviours. However, if, despite the absence of encouragement, and despite the discouragement, a person is hell-bent on persisting with those behaviours, it is not only generally accepted as 'reasonable', but is nearly always the duty of the doctor to do what they can to reduce or mitigate the consequences of those entrenched choices made by the patient - and to fail to do so would generally be regarded as unacceptable, professionally, morally and quite probably legally.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I have completed the wiring and am just about to turn on the main BANG

 

[sparkwright]

Rewired my old house
Passed installation check 1st time
I've a fair idea what I'm doing
Done consumer board in several my old garages

So there is no electrician doing your current consumer unit then...

 

[SimonH2]

Basically, what you are saying is that unless he (or anyone else) is prepared to "do everything properly" then we should not point out any faults.

No, indeed point out all of the faults and for each one say "that's why you need an electrician" rather than say "this is how you should do it".

How on earth can not doing things properly be OK?

Well that is VERY different to what you wrote earlier :

The ONLY thing we should tell him is to get an electrician. Anything else would be a shamefully irresponsible dereliction of duty.

So you are saying that we must not say anything but "get an electrician", but we must point out things he is doing wrong (and tell him to get an electrician). The two are mutually exclusive.


Please decide which you want, and when you've made your mind up I'm sure you'll let us know.

I'm with John on this, sometimes you have to accept that something isn't going to be done right, but we may be able to influence someone so it's done "less badly".

John and I will never agree on that - I do not, and will never, think that it can in any way be a responsible, duty-of-care action to encourage people to do work which is beyond their competence.

Whuich if you bother to read what is written, rather than what you want to have been written, you will see that we agree on that - neither of us have suggested we encourage in any way him doing this work (quite the opposite). But since he appears to have decided to go ahead anyway, we feel it is not unreasonable to attempt to mitigate as best we can the risks.

Do you :
a) Take the approach that we must not in any way say anything other than get an electrician - even though it's clear he is never going to do that.
or
b) Point out that it's a fire just waiting to happen.

Both.

But a) is incompatible with what you wrote earlier :

The ONLY thing we should tell him is to get an electrician. Anything else would be a shamefully irresponsible dereliction of duty.

OTOH I would not sleep soundly if that fire happened because an incompetent have-a-go hero decided he could do electrical work on the basis of asking on the internet how to do things he didn't understand, and I was one of the ones who encouraged or facilitated him doing things he didn't understand.

Most of the responses have been the same. Only a couple have actually suggested what to use - and I think only after it's become clear that he's going to do it anyway so we may as well try and get him to do it as safely as we can influence.

I'm saying "get an electrician", as that is what he should do. That is the only safe thing to do.

It is the only advice he should be given.

Ah, so now you are doing another U-turn
First you said "get an electrician" is the only advice that should be given, then you U-turned and said it was OK (in fact "good") to try and mitigate things when it's clear he's going ahead anyway, now you've U-turned again to "get an electrician" is the only thing to be said.