DIY gas thread - I'm confused

[denso13]

what law is that in?

The "Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998" which doesn't discriminate between at work or at home. Which the previous 15 pages have demonstrated. Hopefully.

 

[JohnD]

ah, do you mean where it says "any person, whether an employee or not"

 

[denso13]

ah, do you mean where it says "any person, whether an employee or not"

Perhaps, I'm just stating the law as it is, not how some people want it to be. I am actually enjoying the discussion but realise you could bring it to an end if you want to.

 

[JohnD]

I've seen a document that says

"Under Regulation 3(3) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations it is an offence for any employee or self-employed person to carry out gas work unless the employer or self-employed person is a member of a class of persons approved by HSE for the purpose. The Gas Safe Register™ is the only body approved for this purpose."

which is not the same

I have no preference for "how some people want it to be"

 

[Deleted member 267285]

I've seen a document that says

"Under Regulation 3(3) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations it is an offence for any employee or self-employed person to carry out gas work unless the employer or self-employed person is a member of a class of persons approved by HSE for the purpose. The Gas Safe Register™ is the only body approved for this purpose."

which is not the same

I have no preference for "how some people want it to be"

Not the same as diy activities though, this probably relates to people at work.

Have a look at this - a screenshot from gas regulations, highlighted yellow and paragraph 52:

Edit: The wording of “work” is in relation to gas “work”, not being at work btw.

 

[denso13]

I've seen a document that says

Which is not relevant the discussion at hand.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

but hobs are not cookers, according to the RGI who installed my gas hobs they have to be hard piped.

But if you’re only cleaning the ceramic at the top, what does it matter how it’s piped? (Unless of course you’re changing the scenario of what originally implied?, and of course it needs to be piped correctly).

 

[denso13]

@JohnD, I can quote you chapter and verse on what the law says and this https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/diy-gas.8090/. Take it up with your boss.

 

[bernardgreen]

But if you’re only cleaning the ceramic at the top, what does it matter how it’s piped?

It was fortunate for the owner of the hob that someone realised the cause of no ignition spark could be a contaminated spark electrode. The alternative was a gas safe technician to disconnect the gas pipe to enable the hob unit to be removed for examination and repair by someone who knew how to repair the electrics in the hob.

Another question. As the flame detection is an essential part of the gas safety what qualification would be required to ensure the repair was gas safe ?

It is a minefield.

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Another question. As the flame detection is an essential part of the gas safety what qualification would be required to ensure the repair was gas safe ?

If work, as deemed in the gas regulations was carried out on an appliance, then a suitably qualified gas safe registered engineer with knowledge (ccn1) and ckr1 would be required. No ckr1, can’t work on a gas cooker/hob.

A common sense approach is often overlooked, if say for example it was the glass in a grill door - anyone can replace this as it’s not classed as work on the grill. Flame failure/detection & combustion related stuff is gas work.

 

[boolie]

My conclusion to all this is the following:

1. The number of people doing DIY gas work in their own homes is very insignificant - maybe < 0..01%. That's why we cant find any news stories about it.
2. The biggest problem is illegal gas work done by unregistered people - this needs to be clamped down on and seems to be the HSE's main focus. Albeit; there are far too many illegal installers
3. RGI's are held to account more than any other - but (like any other profession) there is a lot of incompetent work done by some RGI's. But at least the customer has some recourse to recompense

I like the way Watchdog used to do stings on illegal installers - set up a house full of cameras with an old biddy and get the cowboy in to do some gas work. All caught on camera. Makes for great ratings too

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

As the flame detection is an essential part of the gas safety what qualification would be required to ensure the repair was gas safe ?

Our hob has been troublesome since installed, the flame detectors would often fail to detect the flame and go out as you released the button. Luckily, they were fairly easy to access - 4x nuts and the top panel lifts clear to reveal the works. A quick release and retighten of the brass nipples, gets the detection 'circuits' working perfectly.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

A common sense approach is often overlooked, if say for example it was the glass in a grill door - anyone can replace this as it’s not classed as work on the grill. Flame failure/detection & combustion related stuff is gas work.

But would your typical gas engineer have the slightest clue how to test it and fix it?

 

[Deleted member 267285]

But would your typical gas engineer have the slightest clue how to test it and fix it?

Yes if they hold the relevant qualification on it. If they’ve never worked on cookers, because obtaining appliances is done separately, then no they wouldn’t necessarily have the slightest clue on how to fix it.

 

[bernardgreen]

No ckr1, can’t work on a gas cooker/hob.

Yes if they hold the relevant qualification on it. If they’ve never worked on cookers, because obtaining appliances is done separately, then no they wouldn’t necessarily have the slightest clue on how to fix it.

How much is "taught" in he CKR1 curriculum ? It surely cannot cover every type of cooker and hob. It would take months of teaching. Or does it give the basics and then rely on a copy of the manufacturer's instructions being available.

Replacing a glass oven door does not involve gas work, but a glass cover on a gas hob and the door to a gas grill chamber may or may not have an inter lock to the gas valve. Necessary to prevent a hob from being lit when the cover was down or the grill being lit when the door was shut.