DIY gas thread - I'm confused

[boolie]

Because it is advice on how to comply with the law, I've said this a few times now.

If you do this then you have demonstrated compliance with the law......



But the ACOP says, "You may use alternative methods to those set out in the Code in order to comply with the law".

So what alternative method will Joe use to comply with the need for competence?

to comply with which law? what is the law you need to comply with?

 

[denso13]

Joe bloggs doesnt do the following:

• Use a FGA

How will he then comply with this part of the law?

Gas appliances—safety precautions
26.—(1) No person shall install a gas appliance unless it can be used without constituting a danger to any person.

(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immediately thereafter examine—

(a)the effectiveness of any flue;

(b)the supply of combustion air;

(c)its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;

(d)its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning,

 

[Deleted member 267285]

well let me ask you your own question. why do you think they have said should have qualifications instead of must have qualifications?

Because years ago, before nvq’s, there were people working in the industry who will have been able to demonstrate competence, therefore if they can demonstrate competence and gain a nationally accredited scheme recognition, then they can become a member of the class of persons for HSE, eg the gas safe Register. Therefore these who don’t hold qualifications, can still work safely.

 

[denso13]

to comply with which law? what is the law you need to comply with?

3(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

The ACOP describes how you can demonstrate this (training) but you can use an alternative method. What method/route will Joe use?

 

[Deleted member 267285]

The diy aspect probably only relates to the likes of me, a gas engineer, whereby I can install my own gas appliances, service my own gas appliances and maintain my own gas appliances - I’m competent because I have my acs, I’m gas safe registered with the company I work for, but even if I weren’t, I can still prove competence.

 

[boolie]

How will he then comply with this part of the law?

Gas appliances—safety precautions
26.—(1) No person shall install a gas appliance unless it can be used without constituting a danger to any person.

(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immediately thereafter examine—

(a)the effectiveness of any flue;

(b)the supply of combustion air;

(c)its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;

(d)its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning,

that's a good point.. so say if we change the parameters and Joe has installed a gas hob (gas tight, does the pressure tests, etc) .. is he now legal?
also - say if Joe gets a FGA and knows how to use it does that suddenly make him legal?

 

[denso13]

Joe bloggs doesnt do the following:

• Use a FGA
• Fill in the benchmark
• Register for warranty

Then it will fail the Building Regs compliance inspection and he will have proved his incompetence.

 

[denso13]

is he now legal?

If he can demonstrate his competence. How will he do that if he ignores the ACOP guidance?

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Meanwhile on the Denso and Boolie thread

 

[denso13]

Meanwhile on the Denso and Boolie thread

Lol

 

[boolie]

If he can demonstrate his competence. How will he do that if he ignores the ACOP guidance?

Ok, just playing devils advocate, say Joe has bought the books that are used by these courses and self learned. He has all these books in his house and presents that as evidence

 

[denso13]

Ok, just playing devils advocate, say Joe has bought the books that are used by these courses and self learned. He has all these books in his house and presents that as evidence

No idea, it would ultimately be up to a judge.

Do you think it is equal, or better, than this in the ACOP "(a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry recognised training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that leads to assessment of competence in safe gas work should be recognised by the industry’s standards setting body".

 

[Deleted member 267285]

Ok, just playing devils advocate, say Joe has bought the books that are used by these courses and self learned. He has all these books in his house and presents that as evidence

I would say “still not competent”, as per Denso - there’s no assessment of competence,which we are assessed on at our acs.

 

[boolie]

No idea, it would ultimately be up to a judge.

Do you think it is equal, or better, than this in the ACOP "(a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry recognised training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that leads to assessment of competence in safe gas work should be recognised by the industry’s standards setting body".

I'm not sure what you're asking what do you mean by 'it' when you say 'it is equal or better'

If you want my personal opinion, I don't believe even qualifications are a guarantee of competence. Just because someone has a certificate doesn't mean they're competent - many dangerous installations are done by professionals.

I think people should do their research and hire someone who has a proven track record or someone you know is competent due to previous good work (or do it yourself if you really know your sh1t and have all the tools)

 

[denso13]

what do you mean by 'it'

I mean Joe reading books and training himself. The training would need to be at least as good as that defined in the ACOP I would suggest.