DIY gas thread - I'm confused

[Deleted member 267285]

If you want my personal opinion, I don't believe even qualifications are a guarantee of competence. Just because someone has a certificate doesn't mean they're competent - many dangerous installations are done by professionals.

I agree with this. All the gear, no idea springs to mind sometimes.

 

[denso13]

I think people should do their research and hire someone who has a proven track record or someone you know is competent due to previous good work

That is true for any trade or profession.

 

[Madrab]

I think what @Madrab is saying is that the proof is in the pudding

'Fraid not ..... the word 'competent', certainly when it comes to gas, describes a person that has a proven skillset through a test/examination and passed. They have demonstrated, at that time, that they have the necessary skills and knowledge to perform the work safely. That competency is then confirmed by an awarded certification and is the only evidence that is recognised in law. It's a legal standing. The same definition, I also believe, is applied to electrical work, unvented HW and I do believe it should also be applied to plumbing too. They are all controlled under legal regulations.

I think the critical point to note here is that all these disciplines have the ability to kill people, therefore require a certain level of certification to prove they are competent and safe, in the eyes of the law, to work on them and leave them safe, even if they then prove that they aren't but that's another legal position.

Wet work, e.g. general plumbing, in most cases won't kill people therefore anyone can call themselves a plumber. I don't think they should be allowed to legally call themselves plumbers unless certified but I tend to make a lot of money fixing the problems created by the ones who do.

 

[boolie]

The elephant in the room with all this is that in Joe's original scenario - the neighbour presses 999 and reports the installation. The police will do nothing (if I've understood correctly)

The neighbour may then also dial the HSE - who presumably will also hang up on him.

Maybe he rings gassafe - who will put him on hold for 40 minutes before telling him to fook off. So there is no enforcement of this law UNTIL something bad happens.

Now, in practice (in Joe's situation), he has done a perfectly good installation - so there is no legal comeback. So I think what @Madrab was saying is that the only time he will be held to account is if something bad happens.

 

[denso13]

so there is no legal comeback

Like any crime really, nothing happens till you get caught.

 

[boolie]

Like any crime really, nothing happens till you get caught.

I dont really agree with that. Joe has been caught - by the neighbour

If you rang the police about somebody committing anti social behaviour or a road traffic offence (and you can prove it), they would take action

So, this crime isn't treated as such. So practically speaking, in a situation like Joe's, there is no legal accountability or consequence

 

[Deleted member 267285]

The neighbour may then also dial the HSE - who presumably will also hang up on him.

Maybe he rings gassafe - who will put him on hold for 40 minutes before telling him to fook off. So there is no enforcement of this law UNTIL something bad happens.

Not sure why 999 would be called, unless serious injury or incident (fatality).

HSE have the power to enforce and prosecute if they have any interest.

Gas safe have a moral obligation to pass to HSE if they suspect illegal installation activity.

 

[denso13]

there is no legal accountability or consequence

How do you know what might or might not happen when Joe breaks the law.

 

[boolie]

How do you know what might or might not happen when Joe breaks the law.

I don't, I'm asking the question - I thought that's what the consensus was - I may be misinterpreting what others said. I got the impression that there is no consequence - until something bad happens

 

[denso13]

I got the impression that there is no consequence

Of course there could be. Is Joe himself happy to break laws as long as he gets away with it? Sounds like a morally corrupt person to me.

 

[boolie]

well I have done some research on the subject matter (aka a google search) - Googled 'diy gas prosecution' only found news articles relating to landlords being prosecuted for diy gas work

 

[boolie]

if anyone can find a news article relating to diy gas prosecution - please post it. Would be interested to hear about the scenario

not talking about

• illegal installers - i.e. non gas safe installers who do it as a job (which there are lots of news articles)
• dangerous installations by pros (which there are loads)
• DIY landlords (which there are loads)

 

[denso13]

Googled 'diy gas prosecution' only found news articles relating to landlords being prosecuted for diy gas work

Irrelevant. DIY gas is illegal unless you can prove you are competent, no ifs, no buts.

 

[DavidLewis]

if anyone can find a news article relating to diy gas prosecution - please post it. Would be interested to hear about the scenario

not talking about

• illegal installers - i.e. non gas safe installers who do it as a job (which there are lots of news articles)
• dangerous installations by pros (which there are loads)
• DIY landlords (which there are loads)

As you say, various news articles describe prosecutions of professionals who were qualified, but not competent. Which rather muddies the "competence must be proved by having qualifications" argument...

If a gas appliance has been installed / repaired perfectly, then it's impossible for anyone to argue that it's been done incompetently.

 

[boolie]

Irrelevant. DIY gas is illegal unless you can prove you are competent, no ifs, no buts.

not irrelevant - the latest supposition is that Joe .has probably acted illegally - the follow-up question which I am asking is what happens to Joe? - his neighbour has reported him. Will Joe be held to account? Has any diy-er ever been prosecuted for installing in his own home? Is there any real consequence? article please