DNO guys didn't fit earth when they came to replace cutout

[mfarrow]

Westie, I fully understand the lack of requirement to provide an earth where there is none previously, but none of this installation seems right. We have a 1958 house on what would have been a small new estate, and as far as I expect this is a good year for us all to have a TN-S connection originally. There was also no mention of not being able to give one when I phoned them up.

The cutout has been disturbed at some point to install a garage door, the cable bent around and you can see where's its been pulled off. I'm not sure if it was damaged at the same time.

This whole scenario of the earth, plus the VIR tails capped with some sharply edged galvanised capping, make the installation rather dodgy, but a lack of any fault protection for Class I equipments and circuits is the priority concern.

 

[mfarrow]

Westie

In answer to your previous post, we both have PILC cables coming in and no conduit pr other. Like I said originally, they've left an inch or so of sheath visible but not put anything on it.

 

[westie101]

All I can suggest is that you make contact with them, explain what you know and see what they say

 

[JohnW2]

Are they given no training at all in relation to features of an installation which would render it dangerous for them to connect a service to it

Not that I'm aware of. In part it is because they do not know about bonding either so if an earth was provided they could not connect it without checking the bonding!

I see (and am a little surprised). I'm sure I've heard of DNO personnel refusing to connect a supply because of what they regarded as dangerous aspects of the installation. Is that perhaps done 'on their own initiative', despite having had no training as to what might render an installation dangerous?

We have a number of estates where there is a master service using an SNE cable, with a loop to next door using a 2 core VIR cable. So there is an earth in one but not the other

Fair enough; it had never really occurred to me that you would do that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

I see (and am a little surprised). I'm sure I've heard of DNO personnel refusing to connect a supply because of what they regarded as dangerous aspects of the installation. Is that perhaps done 'on their own initiative', despite having had no training as to what might render an installation dangerous?

We were specifically talking about jointers!
There are a number of other trades with more knowledge on installations right up to engineers who would make these decisions.

If we choose to not connect or disconnect a property we have to be able to justify it per the provisions in ESQCR

 

[JohnW2]

I see (and am a little surprised). I'm sure I've heard of DNO personnel refusing to connect a supply because of what they regarded as dangerous aspects of the installation. Is that perhaps done 'on their own initiative', despite having had no training as to what might render an installation dangerous?

We were specifically talking about jointers!

Well, you may have been, but I really don't know 'who does what' and what job titles they have in your line of work.

There are a number of other trades with more knowledge on installations right up to engineers who would make these decisions. If we choose to not connect or disconnect a property we have to be able to justify it per the provisions in ESQCR

Fair enough. In that case, I suppose my point is that if it is 'jointers' who connect a supply to an installation, and if they don't have enough knowledge or training to know whether or not they are connecting to an 'obviously' dangerous installation, I would probably have expected that one of these other people with more knowledge would have to give their 'say so' before the service was connected.

Kind Regards, John

 

[westie101]

I would probably have expected that one of these other people with more knowledge would have to give their 'say so' before the service was connected.

In the case of a new supply that is (or certainly was) the case.

As regards an existing supply it is the responsibility of the owner of the installation to make sure it is safe. If we visit and the person who visits has sufficient knowledge we would comment about safety issues and the DNO I work for has a standard form for this.
In the case being discussed here that is all we could do and there would be no grounds in my view for us to disconnect the supply.

 

[JohnW2]

I would probably have expected that one of these other people with more knowledge would have to give their 'say so' before the service was connected.

In the case of a new supply that is (or certainly was) the case. As regards an existing supply it is the responsibility of the owner of the installation to make sure it is safe. If we visit and the person who visits has sufficient knowledge we would comment about safety issues and the DNO I work for has a standard form for this. In the case being discussed here that is all we could do and there would be no grounds in my view for us to disconnect the supply.

Thanks for explaining 'how it is'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Would it not be reasonable to expect them to have at least enough knowledge to understand that it would be unsafe for them to connect a service to an installtion which should be TT, but actually had no earth other than service pipes?

When I worked in Staffordshire, there were countless 1000's of overhead and sub TT supplies.

Many have been rewired in straight con, but reinstated as TT, even though the cut-outs now have PME stickers on them.

Many of these installs have no form of RCD protection at all.


I suppose they are working on the basis that they are not making the installation any more dangerous than it already is.

 

[JohnW2]

I suppose they are working on the basis that they are not making the installation any more dangerous than it already is.

I suppose they are, but I would have liked to think that the situation was not quite as frightening as that. There are, of course, plenty of dangerous installations out there, and what we're talking about is an opportunity to detect some of them - and a pity not to take that opportunity.

In any event, if the OP's neighbour is correctly reporting the situation, it's really worse that 'not making the installation any more dangerous than it was' - since the neighbour was apparently reassured that a potentially dangerous situation was satisfactory.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Lectrician]

In my experience, when they change a cutout, they leave the earthing as it was. previously

If an earthing terminal was previously provided, they will provide one. If there was no earthing provided, they will not bother.

If you wanted the earth connected, you should have really left a 16mm earth hanging ready to connect. Some DNO's will connect an earth for you, but not leave a terminal for you to use.

 

[mfarrow]

If you wanted the earth connected, you should have really left a 16mm earth hanging ready to connect.

I think you're probably nearer to the mark with that comment. I would have done so, but unfortunately I had no 16mm cable, just a load of 10mm. Not that the consumer tails are big enough to warrant that even, of course.

 

[Lectrician]

If the tails are 16mm (usually are), minimum main earth is 16mm, and bonding 10mm

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the tails are 16mm (usually are), minimum main earth is 16mm, and bonding 10mm

Could be less if TN-S.

Doesn't matter what size the tails are.

 

[Lectrician]

Most will comply to table 54.7 as a matter of course.