Double pole switch for integrated appliances?

[Stevethetiler]

Hi all..........quick question for those in the know...........

Planning out wiring for my kitchen and just wanted to check something....

I plan on having under counter integrated appliances and controlling them with 13a DP switches above the worktop.

Question is:

Below the worktop, do i use connection plates or single sockets? - im not sure if there is much point using sockets as this will "double fuse" the appliance.....

There again, the manuals say to keep things accessable (plugs in adjacent cupboard)

Whats the method most electricians use these days?

Thanks in advance of any advice.

 

[ColJack]

either/or.. it's personal preference..

I personally prefer a single unswitched socket behind the appliance.. it does mean that you have a second fuse in it, but it makes changing the appliance that much easier.. no need to do any wiring and possibly disturb the connections as you would do with a connection plate..

 

[sparkyspike]

Either.

If an appliance is integrated and difficult to move (fridge-freezer, washing machine) then either use a flex outlet plate behind, or a socket outlet which is accessible from an adjacent cupboard.

The way you are building the kitchen is an issue. If an electrician does the first fix, then disappears for a couple of weeks whilst the kitchen is installed, then it is a good idea that he/she installs the box behind the appliance and then uses a flex outlet on second fix. Otherwise he/she will possibly need to be around whilst the units are being fitted.

Also, some appliances don't leave enough room for a plug top directly behind them.

All depends on circumstances.

 

[Stevethetiler]

Yeah, i thought it would be down to preference.....

Is there any harm in "effectively" having the appliance double fused at the plug and the DP switch??

I guess using single unswitched sockets means i dont have to cut the ole plug off and warranty wise, stays in tact.

Just wanna make sure before going to the shed!

 

[Stevethetiler]

Spike,

I had thought much the same....i am in the process of first fix at the mo, units arent going in yet but i do have an electrician to inspect at various stages of installation.

I just like to get things right first time if you know what i mean! - that way it avoids re-work dont it?

 

[sparkyspike]

Is there any harm in "effectively" having the appliance double fused at the plug and the DP switch??)

No harm just possibly inconvenience. But how often is the fuse going to blow?

If you are fitting (say) a 10 amp fuse in the switch and a 13A in the plug top, in order to avoid the plug top one blowing first, then you are risking forgetting to change the fuse back again if you move the appliance. Again, not a big deal really.

Most appliances can have the plug removed with no risk of losing your warranty. See what the installation manual says.

 

[Stevethetiler]

Thanks Spike.

As you say, i have checked regarding installation depth required on the appliances.........my units are 570mm deep and there isnt going to be alot of space left at the back for much!

If i chase out the wall for a gang box then i reckon i could use a flex outlet plate without any concern meaning just the one fuse in the worktop switch.

Otherwise, like you say, i have the alternative of putting an unswitched socket in an adjacent cupboard i guess - just trying to cut down on installing socekts inside base units if i can.

The other question for you is:

Do ALL integrated appliances (dishwasher/washing machine/fridge/freezer require to be wired to a 13a DP switch in this method of installation?

 

[JohnD]

the socket or flex outlet should be on the wall, not the unit. Cut a hole in the unit back for access.

You will want to line up your units with the worktop - you are not compelled to press them tightly against the wall. It is usual to have pipes and cables behind cabinets.

have a look at the shape of the appliances - Bosch dishwashers are very tight to the wall with a 600 worktop, but have a small pipe space at the bottom. I find that very annoying so a socket may have to go beside not behind it. Other appliances often have more space.

IMO a 13A plug is preferable as it is so easy for an unskilled peson to unplug it when the appliance has to come out for maintenance or replacement. No tools or connections required.

The appliance instructions invariably say that there must be a method of DP isolation so it can be safely disconnected for maintenance or in the event of a fault. In an emergency, you want a switch that is in plain sight, adjacent to the appliance, and obvious what it is for.

p.s. I have recently been considering the idea of having a flex outlet, with an extension socket on a short flex dangling out of it when an appliance is fitted that is too tight for a plug and socket behind it. It is a bit of a bodge and the flex would have to be protected by a 13A switched FCU above the worktop. The extension would have to go into pipespace or other convenient gap I am not entirely satisfied with the idea. What do others think?

 

[sparkyspike]

Do ALL integrated appliances (dishwasher/washing machine/fridge/freezer require to be wired to a 13a DP switch in this method of installation?

Not necessarily. You could use a 20A DP unfused switch on (for example) a dedicated 20A fridge/freezer circuit which then feeds a double unswitched socket behind the two appliances.

You can also use a 20A DP as a ring main spur.

But you still need to maintain the fused plug top in each case.

 

[Stevethetiler]

Thanks John

I know my dishwasher has enough room at the back (depth 540mm) but i agree TOTALLY with you......i cant understand why some manufacturers make their appliances 590mm deep!!!!!!!!!!!

Given that most units are only 570mm deep to allow a 600mm worktop to "overhang" the drawer line, seems stooooopid!

I almost bought a dishwasher that WAS 590mm until i thought on about installation and, as you can guess, binned that idea totally!

Oh, and i wasnt gonna use a flex outlet in a cupoard - just an unswitched single socket (well that or a connection plate but seems like the socket is gonna be the easiest for maintainance etc)

 

[sparkyspike]

the socket or flex outlet should be on the wall, not the unit.

I agree, but you can fix the outlet onto the kitchen units if you like, there's nothing which says you can't.

 

[Stevethetiler]

Spike, I see what your saying.......

All my appliances are 13a fused plug (including cooker) so i will be using the "adjacent" socket method i think as opposed to connection plates

The oven/gas hob will be controlled via 45a CCU feeding an unswitched double socket (via 6mm obviously)

Seem ok guys/girls?

 

[holmslaw]

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[Stevethetiler]

d'ya mean a seperate ring for all the appliances fed via a new run of 6mm from the CU? - with just one switch?

Have i understood you right Holmslaw?

 

[holmslaw]

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