Drivers, you need to sign this......

[esra_ptrap]

Softus wrote:

Is there any mistake that could be made by someone in charge of data that isn't going to be labelled as "appalling"?

No there isn't and that's why its important that we don't rush headlong into recording every aspect of our lives simply because the Government is telling us that we need to in the great fight against terror.

When these incidents happen (and we know they will), the fallout will be far greater

 

[Softus]

I was being ironic.

IMHO, human error is inevitable, and I don't see how something that's so certain to happen can ever be "appalling" - it would be like saying that someone's natural death is appalling.

And yet you give this justification as the reason for restricting the type and amount of data that the government holds, and for linking systems in such a way as to curtail personal privacy and freedom.

However, the linking of systems and the decreased human involvement in ferrying data is exactly the right thing to do in order to reduce the risk of human error.

...its important that we don't rush headlong...

So, are you saying that the act of recording is reasonable and desirable, and it's just the speed of implementing the systems that is folly?

 

[esra_ptrap]

So, are you saying that the act of recording is reasonable and desirable, and it's just the speed of implementing the systems that is folly?

Yes ... Pretty much.

I am no do-gooder Softus and would happily castrate convicted paedophiles with my trusty hacksaw and bring back capital punishment for convicted terrorists

I also believe, though, in the personal freedom of law abiding individuals to go about their lives without undue interference from the State ... Isn't this what makes this country great after all?

We need proper open debate on the big questions ...

• 1. What would be held
  2. How it would be held
  3. Who would have access
  4. How visible your details would be to you and what you would be able to do when they are wrong ... How many people find themselves unable to get a mortgage because they have a CCJ lodged against them in error and can fight for years to get it corrected? These sorts of issues are very real and seriously affect the quality of good peoples lives. This will become worse by exponential proportions if the current plans go ahead without proper debate

All this needs to be wrapped up in watertight legislation which prevents any of the above from being changed or circumvented by anyone (including Governments) without due legal process i.e. No "in the interests of National security" clauses which, effectively, give politicians the right to do what they want.

You've probably guessed that I would rather trust my life to a judge than a politician ... And you'd be right

Then, and only then, would I (and probably many of the current opposition to such plans) concede that the benefits to the majority of holding all of this information outweight the risks to the minority (or the individual).

 

[ellal]

Hm. I certainly accused Ionkontrol of being paranoid, and I doubt that I've used the word more than three times in more than 7000 posts

outside of this topic?..

one

two

three

four

there are more - especially if you include 'paranoia'!...

Fine - you're entitled to hold and to voice that preference, but you aren't extending that right to anyone who disagrees with you.

Must have been why I said "Personally I wish" in relation to this if that was the case eh?..

You'll learn as you get older.

Ah the condescending approach again...the only person you're deluding is yourself!!

IMHO, human error is inevitable, and I don't see how something that's so certain to happen can ever be "appalling"

maybe you should tell that to the families of those killed in Iraq 'inevitably' due to the illegal invasion, that it wasn't 'appalling' because we knew it would happen!...

However, the linking of systems and the decreased human involvement in ferrying data is exactly the right thing to do in order to reduce the risk of human error.

although you could argue the actual 'transfer' could be more reliable, who do you think inputs the data and controls/requests the transfer?. And the amount of data needing to be input is rising exponentialy - although I suppose you could be right about 'decreased human involvement', since most of the work is put out to tender to the lowest bidder - and we all know what happens when you 'pay peanuts'!..

 

[Softus]

one

That was a blatently ironic p*ss take of ETHunter (aka Big_Spark, aka Big_Liar), where I reflected his own ridiculous use of the word back to him.

two

Once. Notably, this was also aimed at Big_Spark.

three

Twice - that time was aimed at your good self.

four

Thrice.

there are more - especially if you include 'paranoia'!...

That's basically the same word, so I would include it. How many more are you claiming?

You'll learn as you get older.

Ah the condescending approach again...the only person you're deluding is yourself!!

I feel entitled to be condescending when you're being so childish.

IMHO, human error is inevitable, and I don't see how something that's so certain to happen can ever be "appalling"

maybe you should tell that to the families of those killed in Iraq 'inevitably' due to the illegal invasion, that it wasn't 'appalling' because we knew it would happen!...

Whoa there - I wrote that in the context of data gathering and disclosure, not all types of human error in all scenarios.

However, the linking of systems and the decreased human involvement in ferrying data is exactly the right thing to do in order to reduce the risk of human error.

although you could argue the actual 'transfer' could be more reliable, who do you think inputs the data and controls/requests the transfer?. And the amount of data needing to be input is rising exponentialy - although I suppose you could be right about 'decreased human involvement', since most of the work is put out to tender to the lowest bidder - and we all know what happens when you 'pay peanuts'!..

Well, this is an area that I happen to know something about, having worked for decades in Information Systems, and having designed bespoke network data centres, so I think I'll just disagree with you at leave it at that.

 

[ellal]

That's basically the same word, so I would include it. How many more are you claiming?

You do the search - I'm not doing your 'leg work' for you...

But it is interesting that you try to justify different uses of the word when shown up - I'm sure that if it were the other way around you would not be allowing that 'get out'..

Whoa there - I wrote that in the context of data gathering and disclosure, not all types of human error in all scenarios.

But you didn't make that clear did you!..you often rely on the semantics of other's posts to make your argument, so that's a case of 'live by the sword....'

Well, this is an area that I happen to know something about, having worked for decades in Information Systems, and having designed bespoke network data centres, so I think I'll just disagree with you at leave it at that.

Funny then how those who 'design' often don't see the consequences...and wouldn't admit that many shiny new (phenomally expensive) IT systems often don't solve a problem, but just shift it elsewhere! ..

Question: have you worked on a major government IT system?

 

[Softus]

You do the search - I'm not doing your 'leg work' for you...

I ain't doing any searching matey. I take it you claim no more than four then, which is rather a climb down from your previous wild claim of it being "continual".

But it is interesting that you try to justify different uses of the word when shown up - I'm sure that if it were the other way around you would not be allowing that 'get out'..

Sorry - you've genuinely lost me here. Where am I "trying" to justify what? And where have I been "shown up"?

Whoa there - I wrote that in the context of data gathering and disclosure, not all types of human error in all scenarios.

But you didn't make that clear did you!

I'm making it clear now. If there are crossed wires then I always acknowledge it. You're the one who took it out of context, so if you want to argue about this simply because I didn't state that I meant it only within the context of the topic within which I wrote it, then go ahead and argue with someone who's interested and leave me out of it.

Funny then how those who 'design' often don't see the consequences...and wouldn't admit that many shiny new (phenomally expensive) IT systems often don't solve a problem, but just shift it elsewhere!

I have no idea what axe you're grinding here, but I said I was leaving it that, and I am.

Question: have you worked on a major government IT system?

I'm not at liberty to answer that.

 

[ellal]

I ain't doing any searching matey. I take it you claim no more than four then, which is rather a climb down from your previous wild claim of it being "continual".

Assume what you like - the truth is out there.. hint - more than 4 (which as you know is more than the 3 you claimed)

I'm making it clear now. If there are crossed wires then I always acknowledge it. You're the one who took it out of context, so if you want to argue about this simply because I didn't state that I meant it only within the context of the topic within which I wrote it, then go ahead and argue with someone who's interested and leave me out of it.

So funny..it WAS clear as mud!..again disinterest appears when something you don't like is pointed out!!

I'm not at liberty to answer that.

probably a wise answer - if I were involved in any of their 'cock-ups', then I'd probably say the same...

 

[Softus]

if I were involved...

If you were involved, then you'd understand my answer, rather than just think you do.

 

[ellal]

if I were involved...

If you were involved, then you'd understand my answer, rather than just think you do.

However it's all very well to claim that 'system linking' reduces 'human error', and then not be able to back that up...

It may be true that in private companies (with a finite budget and limited goals) there is an advantage, but in that case the data is usually only harmful to the company itself if an error occurs, or there is a leak/hacking..

But a large government IT system (which usually incorporates an ever changing spec) which is tendered out and then subject to cost overruns is a different matter! - and affects many people (as opposed to mere financial loss) due to the inherent lack of security and badly thought out goals/implementation!

Which is why I posed the question to see if you actually had experience of the specific area of large scale government systems instead of applying a generalisation!

But then I guess I'll have to take from your answer that you don't have a 'licence to spill'...

 

[libby lou lou]

on the news now

 

[Softus]

I think I'll just disagree with you at leave it at that.

But that wasn't enough - you continue to want to whitter on about it.

Fine. Go ahead. But I've said as much as I'm going to say, and if you infer from this that I'm unable to "back up" my stated opinion, then so be it. I'm genuinely bored with this topic, not because I have nothing to say, but because it's not going anywhere.

 

[tim west]

I think I'll just disagree with you at leave it at that.

But that wasn't enough - you continue to want to whitter on about it.

Fine. Go ahead. But I've said as much as I'm going to say, and if you infer from this that I'm unable to "back up" my stated opinion, then so be it. I'm genuinely bored with this topic, not because I have nothing to say, but because it's not going anywhere.

Talking to yourself now? better get that seen to

 

[Softus]

Talking to yourself now?

You're the with the multiple user name disorder.

Get your compulsive lying looked into and then come back here.

 

[tim west]

Get your compulsive lying looked into and then come back here.

show me where i'm supposed to have lied and i may treat you with an iota of respect, on second thoughts no i won't ( in my best l'oreal accent)"your not worth it".