Economy 7 Storage Heater and Water not heating up overnight!

[yellows]

Hi,

I currently have an issue with my Economy 7 storage heating system and water and would really appreciate your help / ideas. I've searched the forums and can't find an obvious solution. Apologies in advance however I am not DIY or electrics savvy (I feel a sense of achievement just wiring a plug ! ).

My issue is:

For the last few days, both my storage heater and my water heating do not function on the Economy 7 cheaper rates ie overnight. Therefore if i leave the normal plug type switches on for the timed Economy 7 operation overnight, neither is there any heat from the storage heater, nor any hot water, in the morning. They do, however, work using the manual booster switches - which is therefore my only method of heating the water tank and the storage heater. This will be costing me substantially more as well as the fact that I seem to run out of hot water more quickly even if the manual booster switch has been left on for a long time.

My set up:

2 bed flat - built 13 years ago (I've been here for most of them). No replacing, altering or issues of/with heating or water tank set up.

Dimplex storage heater in lounge. Connected by 2 wires to 2 separate switches - 1 is manual booster switch that allows it to be switched on immediately (that works fine) - and 1 switch that I would leave on permanently and previously would mean the storage heater heated overnight and released the heat during the day - this now doesn't happen.

Water tank with 2 wires connected to 2 switches - both the same operation as above. Again manual booster works and heats water - the permanent switch being on now doesn't result in water heating up on its own.

Advice please:

Please could anyone advise me on what the most likely issue is?

Secondly is there likely to be anything simple I could or should do to verify the above bearing in mind I'm not an expert in any shape or form?

Having said the above, if the issue is likely to be complicated - or a complex investigation needed to assess the problem, then I do have an electrician that would come round for a fee - I just would really appreciate a bit of guidance on what he should do before I pay for it, as he has not had any Economy 7 experience - on the phone he said sounded like my whole element in the tank would need replacing which could cost close to a grand!!! Is this really a likely scenario / cost? Scares me as winter is coming so maybe I am for forced to spend that much even though I will struggle to afford it.

Thanks in advance.

Mo

 

[OwainDIYer]

check your consumer units for any MCBs or RCDs that have tripped.

A photo of your intake and meter, and consumer units, would be useful.

First guess is that RCD on the off-peak consumer has tripped.

Second guess is leaky immersion heater element or dampness in the immersion heater cap.

If no MCBs or RCDs have tripped then read your electricity meter (both rates) just before midnight and again at 8am tomorrow morning. The off-peak rate should have increased (even with minimal load such as lights etc,if the off-peak loads aren't on). If the meter isn't changing rate, i.e. the off-peak reading doesn't change, then you have a problem with your meter or teleswitch and will need to call your electricity supplier (on the bill) and they will get a Meter Operative to you.

 

[yellows]

Thanks for such a quick response OwainDIYer.

Will show my real naivety here, but what does RCB / MCB stand for!?

I'll take pics of the meter and switches now and try and post....

 

[yellows]

Hi OwainDIYer. I have posted pics per your last post. One thing I noted was in relation to the water tank Economy 7 switch, there is a neon light - which was on at the time (10.30pm). However whilst light is on, tank isn't heating up. View media item 51256 View media item 51257 View media item 51258 View media item 51259

 

[OwainDIYer]

Miniature circuit breaker / residucal current device - the 'automatic fuses' in your consumer units.

Do you only have 1 immersion heater with 2 cables and switches for peak and off-peak? Are you sure the neon is on, on the off-peak switch? It's too early for it to be off-peak time yet.

Still need a photo of your timeswitch/teleswitch and consumer units please.

Loss of both immersion and storage heater suggests the problem is with the consumer unit or timeswitch, not the individual appliances.

 

[yellows]

Just worked out circuit breakers meaning! How can I check if tripped? I attach a picture of the box - all economy 7 switches are 'on'.

Thanks.

View media item 51260

 

[yellows]

Yes, neon light for off peak is definitely on (can see it in the water tank pic) and this is definitely the switch that is on permanently ie the booster switch is the other one...

 

[OwainDIYer]

the reason your boost hot water runs out quickly is that it is a short immersion element that only heats the top of the tank.

the off-peak element is longer and heats the whole tank

 

[yellows]

Ah, thanks OwainDIYer - that makes sense re the water! I am really struggling with the time switch.... I have no idea where it is (and my flat is small!). I would expect it look like a dial or something similar, but I genuinely can't one!

 

[Bosswhite]

the reason your boost hot water runs out quickly is that it is a short immersion element that only heats the top of the tank.

the off-peak element is longer and heats the whole tank

Is it possible that the Off-Peak element part of the Immersion heater has burnt out ??

 

[OwainDIYer]

the reason your boost hot water runs out quickly is that it is a short immersion element that only heats the top of the tank.

the off-peak element is longer and heats the whole tank

Is it possible that the Off-Peak element part of the Immersion heater has burnt out ??

it is, but would that also take out the storage heater?

Still trying to work out if there's a fault with the timeswitch/teleswitch, which would need a Meter Operator to visit (free if supplier's fault), or with the customer's equipment, which would need an electrician (cost)

 

[Bosswhite]

Is it possible that the Off-Peak element part of the Immersion heater has burnt out ??

it is, but would that also take out the storage heater?

Still trying to work out if there's a fault with the timeswitch/teleswitch, which would need a Meter Operator to visit (free if supplier's fault), or with the customer's equipment, which would need an electrician (cost)

Can you over ride the Storage Heater, could be that the element in the heater has also blown,
If you have had a Power Surge recently its possible it could have affected several electrical items,

 

[yellows]

Thanks guys. Is it possible that the timeswitch is built into the meter? I really cannot see any external dials or timer type item anywhere in the flat!?

 

[picasso]

If the neon is on for off peak water heating there must be power at the switch, its not uncommon for the elements to burn out or the thermostats to fail, tell your electrician to bu££er off, no way changing an element will cost anywhere near a grand, not sure about your storage heaters.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

You may (I think from the pic) have a radio teleswitch type meter. A nightly data signal is sent out via the long wave frequency of Radio 4 to switch the meter over to cheap rate. Some meters will emit an audible click at midnight/1 a.m. and 7/8 a.m. whenever the switchover takes place. (This seven hour period overnight when demand is for power is lower gives rise to the name 'Economy 7').

I can only 2 tails from the meter to consumer unit, so its possible the meter may be switching the entire property to E7 overnight, hence the off peak will work outside of the E7 period. To take advantage of E7 then timeswitches need fitting where required to switch the immersion and storage heaters on during the E7 period, otherwise they could be using electricity at standard rate. (=expensive!) May get better advice on this in the electricians forum, and i'd certainly get an electrician that understands E7 before parting with your hard earned!