EICR - Hob and Oven Connections

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We've recently had an EICR carried out on a 1930's house. Its the first one we've had in the 7 years we've lived here, so there's been some interesting points. One of which is the way the oven and hob are connected. there's a B40 breaker in the consumer unit that feed both, with no isolation switches above the worktops.

Behind the built-in oven is a junction box that connects the incoming 6mm cable to both devices. The EICR remedial action is "Install new power to the oven with a dedicated Switched Spur, due to the oven and hob both using the same supply and no local isolation".

Does this mean running a new circuit from the board so each has its own breaker, or does it mean changing the junction box for something like fused spur units, or cooker units? The devices are here - https://www.beko.co.uk/appliances/i...ilt-in-oven-and-induction-hob-package-qsm223x the hob looks to pull much more load than the oven.

I want to avoid pulling up floors and drilling holes for a new supply if I can, though I completely understand if this is not safe or up to regs then it needs to be done.
 
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In the main a double cooker connection unit is used to connect both to same supply.

There is a point that both cables need to be able to carry the current setting of fuse/MCB/RCBO and both need to be designed for that supply.

I have looked to see on installation instructions maxium supply amps, most only give minimum supply amps.

It depends in the main on the oven, need to read instructions, if under 3 kW you could fit a fused connection unit (FCU) if over 3 kW that's not an option, but unlikely it needs an independent supply.

Most free standing cookers are supplied with a 32 amp supply, so unless rather special separating the two should not need a larger supply.
 
Thanks both.

Yes, he has it down as a C3, which confuses me now as I'm sure only C1 and C2's need to be sorted to bring the installation up to satisfactory status? Comment was "Oven & hob wired on the same circuit and same cable but oven is 3kw and hob 7kw so need to
be separate as there is a potential overload."

The oven total power load is 2.5kW and hob 7.2kW. I took these to mean the max outputs, so 10.87amps and 31.30amps?

The double cooker connection unit looks neater than what I have.

I've also just watched a John Ward video that suggests the cable should be fine for the two appliances -
 
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"Oven & hob wired on the same circuit and same cable but oven is 3kw and hob 7kw so need to
be separate as there is a potential overload."
Male cow excrement, it does not matter if the oven is 5 kW and hob 15 kW the MCB/RCBO/Fuse will prevent overload. It may cause nuisance tripping, but there is no potential for overload.

My cooker is rated
TECHNICAL DATA
Electrical supply/Load
220 - 240V - 50Hz
10466 - 12455 W
And it is supplied by a 32 amp RCBO even when that rating is 45 amp.

Diversity is a little up the creak now with cookers, I have 4 rings 2 x 3 kW, 1 x 1.7 kW and 1 x 3.7 kW however except with just water that power would burn any food cooked, so the rings use more like 1 kW max. It is clear an induction hob is more economic to run to a pure resistive hob so what ever the rating in real terms it will use less power.
 
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Then comment about potential overload just demonstrates that the inspector doesn’t apply or understand diversity

Ignore the C3 is my advice
 
"Oven & hob wired on the same circuit and same cable but oven is 3kw and hob 7kw so need to
be separate as there is a potential overload."
There may be some potential confusion with the oven being less <3kW.
Many of these lower powered ovens come as 'plug and go' - with an attached lead and plug.
If this were the case, as Eric says above, adding an FCU, or a socket onto your oven circuit may be prudent. However, your oven instructions state a minimum fuse value of 13A and give instructions on how it should be hardwired.
These types of oven often have built-in fuses on the PCB, rather than relying on a 13A fuse in a plug; they are intended to be connected to oven circuits that may have high value fuses/MCBs.
In my opinion (and I'm not an electrician), both the oven and hob will be ok to connect to your existing oven circuit, through a double connection unit.
 
Thank you. I think I need to have a conversation with the spark. I'm not sure if he's being sneaky or at some point we've had a verbal conversation to 'get it all sorted' rather than focusing on the C1/C2's.

I've Googled the better connection to use, is it this? - https://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/dual-cooker-cable-outlet-plate.html

If so, do Screwfix call them something different? I can only find the older style cooker switch and sockets on their website.
 
However be aware with all advice that has been given that manufacturers instructions may specify a maximum fuseor MCB rating due to the size of the appliances wiring.

Although it may not apply to you if they have been there 7 years I have known refusal to honour a warranty when overload damage has occurred.
 
However be aware with all advice that has been given that manufacturers instructions may specify a maximum fuseor MCB rating due to the size of the appliances wiring.
Agreed, but interestingly in this case...

Screenshot_20240129-165949_Adobe Acrobat.jpg


(Despite the usual contradictions throughout the MI), they mightn't be able to argue, when the fuse value is stated as "min. 13A". :)
 

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However be aware with all advice that has been given that manufacturers instructions may specify a maximum fuseor MCB rating due to the size of the appliances wiring.
Is that the reason?

Do cookers have larger wire sizes than ovens?
 
The problem as I see it, is you get an EICR done by some one you trust is able to give you a factually report on the condition, if one then finds any part of the report is incorrect, it means one can't trust any part of the report as they have shown they lack the knowledge required to make the report in the first case.

It is the same with most things one is told, if some one says a smart meter can make your lights switch on/off by clapping your hands, which you know is not the case, then you ignore everything else they say as clearly they have not got a clue what they are talking about.

So if the guy doing the EICR says you really need independent supplies because:-
1) It may trip in the middle of cooking, most likely the Christmas dinner.
2) The oven can only handle 15 amp, and so having a 40 amp MCB could cause the oven to become dangerous under fault conditions.
3) The 1.5 mm² cable feeding the oven is not big enough for a 40 over load.
4) You really should have a FCU feeding that oven
Then we can relate to what he has said, and say OK what is needed is a FCU, or some other method to make it safe.

But there is no requirement for a local isolator with non rotating machinery, or any under 0.37 kW. The cable used is large enough you say 6 mm² if there is an overload then only thing which will happen is the MCB will open so it fails safe, so unless some thing in the oven instructions which says maximum supply must be less than 40 amp, I can't see any reason for the comment.

I don't like doing EICR as it is so open, but at least we know must be part of the installation not part of an appliance, and it must relate to electrical safety, so lack of electrical items has nothing to do with the report, if the building has no lights, then that is not a reason to fail it. The same applies to anything else, we know a building must be habitable, but that is not our job, lack of smoke detectors is nothing to do with the report, it may fail a fire inspection report, but not an EICR.

However the English government has messed that up, “electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;

They have included under installation fixed electrical equipment. But when we look at BS 7671 we get Electrical installation (abbr: installation). An assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated characteristics to fulfil Specific purposes.

We normally consider anything which would be included with the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment, would not be tested or inspected with an EICR. So only equipment tested would be the lights.

The danger is with any inspection and testing is once one makes reference to some item, it can be assumed they are included, so if the surveyor doing a home buyers report makes comment about the disused fuse box in the ceiling space, one can assume he has also done an EICR. Unless he states otherwise.

So back to your oven, can you see the problem carrying all the installation instructions for all ovens so one can read up to see if there is a maximum overload allowed? It would be near impossible to know what every oven requires. And I will admit I have been surprised at what some installation instructions have required, I found one Bosch central heating boiler stipulating a type A RCD for example.

This is why I don't like doing EICR's. However it was only a code 3, so he is allowing you not to correct if you want to rent out the home, what I don't want is for some one when I have said the installation is OK, to then say in 10 years time, that was never OK, you have a claim here. Not heard of that happening, but if one mentions something, even if not coded, then no one can say you haven't done your job.

So I would put the comment under the inspectors get out of jail free card, he has pointed it out, just in case some one in the future says he did not do his job.
 

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