EICR unsatisfactory! rewiring recommended

[ericmark]

Whilst that is true, it doesn't really matter, does it, since an EICR is undertaken to determine whether an installation complies with regulations which are current at the date of the EICR, regardless of when the installation was designed or installed?

That has been the point, the BS7671:2018, BS7671:2008 and BS7671:2001 all states when comes into force. Before that date the previous edition is used.

But to do that you need the date of design, without the date it was designed you simply don't know which BS7671 it has to comply with.

I have a copy of BS7671:2001 I don't have a copy of BS7671:1992 which was the first edition of BS7671.

BS 7671:2008 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 1st January 2008 and is intended to come into effect on 1st July 2008. Installations designed after 30st June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008.

and

BS 7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 1st June 2001 and will to come into effect on 1st January 2002. Installations designed after 1st January 2002 should comply to this edition.

So it would seem if designed before 1st January 2002 then can comply with BS7671:1992 and will still comply with BS7671:2018 because of the dates which they were designed by.

As said I don't have earlier editions to see if you can go further back, but unless the inspector has some proof as to when designed, he has to assume it was designed after 2018, OK may be with red and black colours that gives a good indication, but how does he know old colours not used?

The exception is where the changes are not set by BS7671, if the HSE have set rules, these may need to be complied with, as with fire prevention and detection, but big question is an electrician qualified to make a judgement on fire prevention and detection? I would say no, and if I needed to do an EICR I think I would state this is an electrical installation report only, if a report is required on fire prevention and detection or any other safety feature of the property, this needs to be done by some one qualified in the field.

As to if potentially dangerous can be assigned to anything installed in 2018 which can't be assigned to something designed in 1992 will depend on other changes like earth methods. But they would get C3.

 

[ericmark]

Whilst that is true, it doesn't really matter, does it, since an EICR is undertaken to determine whether an installation complies with regulations which are current at the date of the EICR, regardless of when the installation was designed or installed?

That has been the point, the BS7671:2018, BS7671:2008 and BS7671:2001 all states when comes into force. Before that date the previous edition is used.

But to do that you need the date of design, without the date it was designed you simply don't know which BS7671 it has to comply with.

I have a copy of BS7671:2001 I don't have a copy of BS7671:1992 which was the first edition of BS7671.

BS 7671:2008 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 1st January 2008 and is intended to come into effect on 1st July 2008. Installations designed after 30st June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008.

and

BS 7671:2001 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 1st June 2001 and will to come into effect on 1st January 2002. Installations designed after 1st January 2002 should comply to this edition.

So it would seem if designed before 1st January 2002 then can comply with BS7671:1992 and will still comply with BS7671:2018 because of the dates which they were designed by.

As said I don't have earlier editions to see if you can go further back, but unless the inspector has some proof as to when designed, he has to assume it was designed after 2018, OK may be with red and black colours that gives a good indication, but how does he know old colours not used?

The exception is where the changes are not set by BS7671, if the HSE have set rules, these may need to be complied with, as with fire prevention and detection, but big question is an electrician qualified to make a judgement on fire prevention and detection? I would say no, and if I needed to do an EICR I think I would state this is an electrical installation report only, if a report is required on fire prevention and detection or any other safety feature of the property, this needs to be done by some one qualified in the field.

As to if potentially dangerous can be assigned to anything installed in 2018 which can't be assigned to something designed in 1992 will depend on other changes like earth methods. But they would get C3.

 

[JohnW2]

I have a copy of BS7671:2001 I don't have a copy of BS7671:1992 which was the first edition of BS7671. and So it would seem if designed before 1st January 2002 then can comply with BS7671:1992 and will still comply with BS7671:2018 because of the dates which they were designed by.

No. You are talking about two totally different things - the dates when new work had to be compliant with particular editions and whether or not aspects of an installation are compliant with BS 7671:2018.

Although BS 7671:2018 says that work which was compliant with prevailing editions when it was undertaken is 'not necessarily unsafe', there is no way of being "compliant with BS7671:2018" (which is what an EICR conducted today is assessing) other than by being compliant with BS7671:2018 - and there's no way around that.

The loss of a C4 code for EICRs has, to my mind, confused matters. I personally think there is still a need for code which means "was compliant when installed, but not compliant with current regs - but not a problem". To have no other option but to "recommend improvement" is such a case seems, to me, to be inappropriate, and unhelpful (particularly for things like cable colours!)!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

OK see your point can issue a C3, however title of thread is unsatisfactory so C2, I see a problem issuing C2 for anything which complied when designed.

 

[JohnW2]

OK see your point can issue a C3, however title of thread is unsatisfactory so C2, I see a problem issuing C2 for anything which complied when designed.

You're now invoking the argument that if it was, at some point in the past, compliant with prevailing regs, hence 'satisfactory' at that time, that it must still be 'satisfactory today'.

However, times change, including our views about what is 'satisfactory', acceptable and even 'safe'. I need not tell you that if you looked back far enough it time (to decide what was compliant 'when installed'), the above argument would lead to you to regarding some ludicrously dangerous practices as being 'satisfactory today' - so, at the very least, one would have to decide 'where to drwa the line'.

In any event, as I said, loss of C4 means that even if one codes something as C3, one is still 'recommending improvement' - and why should one be recommending that if one regards the situation as 'satisfactory' (which is the only opposite of 'unsatisfactory')?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

fuse board no RCD protection C2

As already said, a crap EICR.
A fuse board does not require RCD protection. Circuits fed by it require RCD protection. That may seem pedantic, but this sort of thing shows up whether someone actually knows what they are doing - whoever did yours didn't