Electric car and is this theft?

[DIYWell]

As the charger is supplied by a third party and added to their network of public charge points (perhaps with limited access hours), assume the user is charged something like 60p/kWh. The railway is supplying the juice, so the agent is going to be paying something like cost plus 20%. Potentially as a large user of sparks, the railway is on a spot contract with kWh cost changing quite often.

The car owner is contracting with the charge point provider via their app so any gaming of the free 15 mins is the charge point provider's problem. The railway is still being paid for the electricity consumed and making a profit.

Of course, if the railway hasn't set up the contracts in that way, then it ain't no way to run a railway.

 

[ericmark]

I may learn more today, the electrical engineer was unaware of the free 15 minutes, not worried about a one off, but if regular then a different matter.

 

[thetman]

Having just bought an electric car, there may be a reason for the free period I discovered. Some of the charge points pre-authorise a charge on your card (approx £30) and sometimes if the charge doesnt start first time you can end up with multiple pre-authorised amounts if you try a few times. If you get a 'free' period then you can make sure you have connected proplerly before committing to paying.

 

[ericmark]

Well it seems the couple involved know very well they are basic stealing electric from a charity, but each time they are told they claim they never knew.

 

[Jackrae]

Well it seems the couple involved know very well they are basic stealing electric from a charity, but each time they are told they claim they never knew.

So where on the horse do they connect the cable ?

 

[winston1]

Well it seems the couple involved know very well they are basic stealing electric from a charity, but each time they are told they claim they never knew.

You cannot steal electric, it is still there. You can only misuse it.

 

[BS3036]

I suppose you were trying to be funny... Clearly the electrons still exist but energy conveyed by them can be stolen.
More pragmatically, the offense is created by section 13 of the Theft Act 1968. This section defines it as theft.
"A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

 

[winston1]

1968 is a long time ago. The courts have thrown out electric theft cases since then. The offence is misuse of electricity.

 

[denso13]

The offence is misuse of electricity.

Nonsense, the offence is "abstracting electricity".

 

[ericmark]

You do make a good point, if a supermarket has a stack of sheets showing what is on offer, taking one of those sheets is not theft, even if you role it up and use it as a taper to light the fire.

We have café's and the like where you are allowed to use their broad band and even plug into their sockets.

So it may be morally wrong, it is not really theft.

 

[Jackrae]

You do make a good point, if a supermarket has a stack of sheets showing what is on offer, taking one of those sheets is not theft, even if you role it up and use it as a taper to light the fire.

We have café's and the like where you are allowed to use their broad band and even plug into their sockets.

So it may be morally wrong, it is not really theft.

The basis of the legality on electricity "theft" is that electricity does not exist as an owned entity so the law defines the 'theft' as "abstraction"
With respect to the supermarket sheets, it is quite clear that the sheets are owned by the supermarket so removal of them will be theft. Plugging into a cafe sockets to use their system to charge devices, use their internet or wifi is a "permitted use" within the terms defined by the cafe owners.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Plugging into a cafe sockets to use their system to charge devices, use their internet or wifi is a "permitted use" within the terms defined by the cafe owners.

Then so is plugging in to the charger.

Unless they state only to be done once then I suppose there is nothing they can do about it apart from put up a notice stating only to be done once.

I still cannot understand why the 15 minutes is free and repeatable with all the electrical wizardry around these days.

 

[ericmark]

I agree with @EFLImpudence not much the railway can do, other than change the people who collect the money, what is unknown is how often this happens, the building has two independent supplies, and is nothing more than a warehouse as it stands, the cost to remove the supply compared with standing charge means it would take around 5 years to break even, so it seemed a good idea to use the supplies instead, a second point was on the cards if found first one used.

It seems it is using a firm called podpoint, more on railway website here and it would seem podpoint did all the installation work, all the railway do is get payment from podpoint and the safety officer/electrician has a key to reset the RCD in the point if required, it never has been.

Looking at podpoint website it seems some supermarkets allow free recharging others like Lidi charge 25p per kWh, I was a little surprised, it says average price of electric in UK is 17p per kWh and I seem to remember with caravan sites there was some law about making money by selling electric at more than it costs to buy, at one time landlords were selling electric to tenants at an inflated price, and some laws were passed to stop it.

So not sure if buying at 17p and selling at 25p is permitted?

However the website says cost to fully recharge a Tesla Model S 100D is £16.15 and a Nissan Leaf £6.12, big point is if worth the effort to save a maximum of £16.15 when some one decides to repeatedly plug in. It does seem the price quoted to recharge is the cost of the electric x kWh rating of battery, so it would cost a Tesla Model S 100D owner £25 to recharge it, where they are charged.

My son said his works fitted a couple of charge points, but now there are more than two people with electric cars, a production line so not really an option to require the owner to move car once charged, how long firms will give free power I don't know? It does seem attractive to have an electric car and some one else pays for the electric.

Having read how many points are at the moment free, I can understand why people feel it is OK to just sit there unplugging and plugging in again.

 

[plugwash]

My understanding is that regular buisinesses are not allowed to add any markup when selling electricity for domestic use, but there is no such rule on reselling electricity for non-domestic use.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It was a Kia, but the site electrician was surprised it could be done, so was I, but 80p for 15 minutes at 22 kW is what my rough calculation worked out, and it is not that much, and just because one guy will repeatedly unplug and plug back in, does not mean most do that, I would be happy with my e-bike to pay a £1 to have it recharging while in a cafe or pub, even if asked to donate to a charity, so maybe a charity box by the charge point is the way to go.

A metal detecting loop in the ground, over which a car would have to park, could be used to reset the claim to a free 15 minute charge, in addition to the action of unplugging. The car would the have to be moved off the loop, before the charge could restart.