Electricity Suppliers - advice?

[SimonH2]

The following is a paragraph from a TrustPilot review of Together Energy and illustrates exactly (as per my post #114) how some complaints are completely unjustified and stem from a lack of understanding of just how the switching process works; quote:”... when I rang (Together Energy) was told I couldn't get overpayment refunded until final bill issued and could take 8 weeks to refund....... DO NOT TOUCH THUS COMPANY. DISGUSTING CUSTOMER SERVICE !!!!!!!!”;

.....as I said, totally unjustified. However, as with most companies (including the 'Big' ones) I'm sure Together Energy have some shortcomings of one form or another.

I do find myself wondering how it was explained to the customer. There's a big difference between :
We won't be refunding the balance until we've done a final bill and that could be 8 weeks.
and
We can't issue a final bill until we get the meter readings through the official channels as laid down by OfGem. That process can take 8 weeks and as soon as we get the readings we'll issue your bill and refund.

Though, of course, many customers just don't listen to anything they're told anyway

 

[JohnW2]

I do find myself wondering how it was explained to the customer. There's a big difference between : We won't be refunding the balance until we've done a final bill and that could be 8 weeks. ... and ... We can't issue a final bill until we get the meter readings through the official channels as laid down by OfGem. That process can take 8 weeks and as soon as we get the readings we'll issue your bill and refund. .... Though, of course, many customers just don't listen to anything they're told anyway

True, but if you looked at the reviews, some are complaining about delays far far longer than 8 weeks.

As I keep saying, my uncertainties (and some concerns) relate to the fact that such complaints seem to be very much more common in the reviews of one supplier than for any other supplier whose reviews I have looked at. One assumes that the ability of customers to "listen to what they are told" will be much the same for customers of all suppliers.

In any event, there is really a bigger issue than the delays in getting refunds of credit balances. The underlying issue with most of these complaints (and, needless to say, one of my personal concerns) is that some of these companies appear to manipulate DD payments in such a way as to result in ridiculously large credit balances. Were that not the case, then people probably wouldn't be moaning anything like as much about delays in getting back (small) credit balances.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bri160356]

Hi John,

The message said something along the lines of “forum limit of 10,000 words has been exceeded”...which, thinking about it, is an awful lot isn’t it?;

...however, my post was rejected on that basis;....I suspect that DIYnot (or possibly me! ) suffered some sort of glitch.

*****************

Last year ‘Together Energy’ were appointed (by OFGEM) as the emergency supplier for all the customers of the defunct energy supplier OneSelect;...perhaps Together Energy’s own service levels have been unduly stretched owing to the pressure of having such an immediate (and large!) influx of new customers;...new (and reluctant) customers who are no doubt disgruntled and hacked-off to begin with,... and are perhaps quick to complain about anything,... and everything,...justified or not!

The above scenario (i.e. a dip in customer satisfaction levels) is not uncommon when an energy supplier is inundated with a raft of new ‘energy orphans’ from a recently defunct company.

I know virtually nothing about ‘Economy 7’ tariffs and ‘night’ tariffs but as I said previously I wouldn’t be overly concerned about a switch from EON across to TogetherEnergy;...provided the £££’s made it worthwhile.

Last year I switched to Yorkshire Energy who were so new they didn't have any reviews,...good or bad!....absolutely no issues whatsoever with the switch from Avro, and no issues with Yorks.Energy since,... sweet as a nut tbh.

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, The message said something along the lines of “forum limit of 10,000 words has been exceeded”...which, thinking about it, is an awful lot isn’t it?; ...however, my post was rejected on that basis;....I suspect that DIYnot (or possibly me! ) suffered some sort of glitch.

AS you say, presumably a glitch. That message you were trying to quote (#117) contained (excluding quotes, which don't get re-quoted) only 282 words (1411 characters and 288 spaces), so way below a 10,000 word 'limit'!

Last year ‘Together Energy’ were appointed (by OFGEM) as the emergency supplier for all the customers of the defunct energy supplier OneSelect;...perhaps Together Energy’s own service levels have been unduly stretched owing to the pressure of having such an immediate (and large!) influx of new customers;...new (and reluctant) customers who are no doubt disgruntled and hacked-off to begin with,... and are perhaps quick to complain about anything,... and everything,...justified or not! The above scenario (i.e. a dip in customer satisfaction levels) is not uncommon when an energy supplier is inundated with a raft of new ‘energy orphans’ from a recently defunct company.

Indeed. You may have missed it but I mentioned early on that the majority of these complaints related to custoimers which had been switched from One Select by Ofcom - so, as yoiu say, maybe a fairly artificial situation.

I know virtually nothing about ‘Economy 7’ tariffs and ‘night’ tariffs but as I said previously I wouldn’t be overly concerned about a switch from EON across to TogetherEnergy;...provided the £££’s made it worthwhile.

The E7 and day/night prices only affects the arithmetic, which is straightforward enough. As you have seen from my figures, in terms of what I have found so far, the £££s seem to be pretty 'worthwhile' for me!

Given that an awful lot of people seem to use them, one thing I've never really understood about 'comparison sites' in general (i.e. not just the energy supply ones) is how anything other than the companies offering the cheapest deals get any significant number of customers!

Last year I switched to Yorkshire Energy who were so new they didn't have any reviews,...good or bad!....absolutely no issues whatsoever with the switch from Avro, and no issues with Yorks.Energy since,... sweet as a nut tbh.

Again reassuring. As for "they didn't have any reviews", I have a similar situation with the other supplier I've been considering (per the figures I recently quoted) is ESB. They've been going (in UK) only for a few months and, as a result, although they have a fair number of 'glowing' reviews, those reviews nearly all relate to the 'ease of changing to ESB', not the actual experience of being an ESB customer! In that case, the 'saving grace' is perhaps that, although new to the UK, it appears that ESB is the long-standing state-sponsored (or somesuch) electricity supplier in Ireland, and also has a stake in (Irish and UK) electricity generation - so, at least in terms of the big picture, not really a small or new company at all.

Thanks again for your input. More than partially thanks to you, I think I'm becoming gradually more comfortable about the idea of Together Energy!

Kind Regards, John

 

[bri160356]

I do find myself wondering how it was explained to the customer. There's a big difference between :
We won't be refunding the balance until we've done a final bill and that could be 8 weeks.
and
We can't issue a final bill until we get the meter readings through the official channels as laid down by OfGem. That process can take 8 weeks and as soon as we get the readings we'll issue your bill and refund.

Though, of course, many customers just don't listen to anything they're told anyway

That’s a very good point Simon;...it’s certainly fair to say that some help-desk staff don’t cover themselves in glory when attempting to explain how perceived ‘problems’ have arisen.

It’s sometimes down to a lack of training and ignorance of their own procedures,...and sometimes it’s down to “I don’t really give a toss,...and I can’t be arsed explaining it to you”.

And conversely, as you say, there are some customers who just won’t see reason, not matter how hard you try.

 

[JohnD]

help-desk staff

call-centre workers have a horrible life. They are given a script and punished if they deviate from it.

Blame the companies that hire them.

 

[JohnW2]

The Citizens advice comparison tool is a good starting point;...

There's something very odd about the figures on the CAB site ....

... for the Together Energy 3-year deal I've been looking at, they give (for my usage) a total of £1,299.79, which is very close to my own calculation of £1,308.19 (the difference being due to the fact that the nearest the CAB tool will allow me to get to my 48% night usage is 50%). However, they then say that this is to be paid by 'fixed monthly payments' of £130.00 (i.e. a yearly total of £1,560) - as a result of which they state the 'saving' for me as negative (an 'extra annual cost' of £114.55).

I don't really understand what is going on here, and it's not something I've seen on any of the other comparison sites - but if it is true that they require fixed monthly payments totalling £1,560 when the estimated total annual cost is ~£1,300, this could explain in part why substantial credit balances arise with this company.

Any thoughts?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I don't really understand what is going on here, and it's not something I've seen on any of the other comparison sites - but if it is true that they require fixed monthly payments totalling £1,560 when the estimated total annual cost is ~£1,300, this could explain in part why substantial credit balances arise with this company.

Ah, I've found some 'further information' about this tariff on the CAB site ...

Expected Direct Debits
Electricity* £130.00 per month
* Throughout the winter months until April, Together Energy ask new customers to pay a +20% 'winter weighting' on their average monthly direct debit. This is done to cover your excess energy usage because you are joining at this time of year and people use more energy in the winter. In May, Together Energy will reassess your consumption and amend your direct debit accordingly for the remainder of your contract. This means that the annual amount showing is still correct and you don't pay any more than you were quoted based on this consumption (you just pay a little more in winter and less in summer).

I'm not sure that I fully how this would work in my case. As I've said, the "annual amount showing" is £1,299.79, such that 'the "average monthly direct debit" would be about £108.32, and hence, a "+20% 'winter weighting' "would, indeed, take the monthly payment to about £130 (actually 129.98).

However, I would ideally switch on 20th April (when current deal expires), leaving only 11 days left before May, when they "will reassess your consumption and amend your direct debit accordingly for the remainder of your contract". I would like to think that it would mean that I would pay just one payment of £130, after which it would fall to roughly the £108.32 figure (for ever, in usage remained 'as predicted') thereafter - but, without asking them, who knows?! The problem is that they clearly won't be able to meaningfully 're-assess' my consumption just a few days after they start supplying my electricity.

Any further thoughts?

Whatever else, this shows how misleading the 'saving' figures on these comparison sites (even the CAB one) can be - in this case I think (hope!) resulting in a considerable underestimation of the true 'saving'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[bri160356]

Hi John, sorry, I missed your post re OneSelect going bust;...however my comment about the dip in service levels of the ‘rescuing’ Energy company is commonplace;... it’s a well documented scenario, especially in 2018 when 9 energy companies went bust,...and there have been a couple more since the start of this year as well. It’s a bit of a worrying trend though;...in the 10 years up to Jan’18 only 4 companies went bust in total.

As for people always choosing the cheapest tariff from comparison sites,...well that is by and large true. However, all the energy companies, and the ‘minnows’ in particular are constantly introducing new tariffs whilst simultaneously withdrawing their previous tariff. When an old (cheapest) tariff is withdrawn it is immediately replaced (at the top of the charts!) by the next cheapest tariff from a different supplier;...albeit the new ‘cheapest’ tariff is generally more expensive than the previous ‘cheapest’ tariff. Last year was a particularly busy ‘switching’ period, due to ‘volatility’ (rapidly rising prices!) in the energy market.

Last year ‘tariffs’ were being introduced and withdrawn at a dizzying rate;...it wasn’t unusual for the same company to introduce/withdraw 3 or 4 tariffs in the space of just a couple of weeks. Each new tariff was always more expensive than the previous one of course.

Energy companies, especially the minnows, need customers to survive,...that much is obvious, and more customers=more profit!,...however it’s not quite so simple,... more customers (especially those on fixed rate tariffs) also brings greater risk for the Energy companies, especially at a time of rapidly rising energy wholesale prices. Hence the reason they introduce/withdraw tariffs on a regular basis;...they want more customers, sure,... but equally they don’t want to overly expose themselves to those volatile market forces. They generally like to take customers on board in a very controlled manner, rather than just leave the flood gates open;...it’s a delicate balancing act in a very difficult business..

Energy suppliers face many costs including a real biggie called their ‘Green Energy subsidy’. To put it simply, in effect, ALL energy companies must contribute to a fund for Green energy incentives;...these payments are mandatory and are administered by OFGEM. In 2012 OFGEM estimated that these green subsidies accounted for at least 8% of our domestic household annual energy bills!...probably more than 8% now I’d imagine.

As I said, the Energy supply business isn’t easy,...and failure to pay their Green Energy contributions is often a sign that an Energy company is in trouble.

Sorry for the waffle, but a bit of background info never goes amiss does it?

 

[bri160356]

Ah, I've found some 'further information' about this tariff on the CAB site ...



I'm not sure that I fully how this would work in my case. As I've said, the "annual amount showing" is £1,299.79, such that 'the "average monthly direct debit" would be about £108.32, and hence, a "+20% 'winter weighting' "would, indeed, take the monthly payment to about £130 (actually 129.98).

However, I would ideally switch on 20th April (when current deal expires), leaving only 11 days left before May, when they "will reassess your consumption and amend your direct debit accordingly for the remainder of your contract". I would like to think that it would mean that I would pay just one payment of £130, after which it would fall to roughly the £108.32 figure (for ever, in usage remained 'as predicted') thereafter - but, without asking them, who knows?! The problem is that they clearly won't be able to meaningfully 're-assess' my consumption just a few days after they start supplying my electricity.

Any further thoughts?

Whatever else, this shows how misleading the 'saving' figures on these comparison sites (even the CAB one) can be - in this case I think (hope!) resulting in a considerable underestimation of the true 'saving'!

Kind Regards, John

Hi John, can you tell us the exact name of your present EON tariff please?;

... I assume the tariff you are interested in is called Together Energy ‘Brexit Protect December21’ ...is that correct?

I’ll plug your info into CAB and have a squint. I’ll need to use my own post code of course and that will alter the figures to a degree, but if I use your present EON tariff, pay by monthly D/D, an E7 night usage of 50% and 9kwh per year the figures won’t be too dissimilar.

 

[bri160356]

Hi,John... I’ve just got a quote directly from Together Energy;..their own website allows you to plug in your exact night usage of 48%,...the only 3 year ‘fixed tariff’ deal it brought up was called ‘Brexit protect April22’ = £114.47/month (£1373/yr) with £30 exit fee.

Not sure whether the post-code is of any great significance,...but may be???,... I used my daughters post-code/address,... it wouldn’t accept my address because it knows I have a Smart meter and rejected my attempts to pretend I had E7.

As I said earlier, tariffs are introduced and withdrawn on a regular basis , and the price comparison sites do not always display the current tariffs accurately;...it can sometimes take many days for comparison sites to be updated. As a general rule the only time you really know that a tariff is still available is to directly access the particular energy suppliers own website.

However, that being said, if you access Together Energy’s ‘Tariff info’ there is no mention of a their own tariff called ‘Brexit protect April22’,....it’s obviously so new they’ve not caught up with themselves yet!

If an eye-catching tariff pops up it doesn’t pay to hang around,...they generally don’t last long before being withdrawn.

https://togetherenergy.co.uk/terms/tariffs/

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, sorry, I missed your post re OneSelect going bust;...however my comment about the dip in service levels of the ‘rescuing’ Energy company is commonplace;... it’s a well documented scenario, especially in 2018 when 9 energy companies went bust,...

Yes, that all makes sense - and I suppose potentially goes a long way to explaining why suppliers who have a sudden influx of customers of a company that has gone bust have much worse reviews.

As for people always choosing the cheapest tariff from comparison sites,...well that is by and large true. However, all the energy companies, and the ‘minnows’ in particular are constantly introducing new tariffs whilst simultaneously withdrawing their previous tariff. When an old (cheapest) tariff is withdrawn it is immediately replaced (at the top of the charts!) by the next cheapest tariff from a different supplier;...albeit the new ‘cheapest’ tariff is generally more expensive than the previous ‘cheapest’ tariff. Last year was a particularly busy ‘switching’ period, due to ‘volatility’ (rapidly rising prices!) in the energy market.

Yes, that all makes sense. However, given the dozens/hundreds of deals which most of these sites list, I struggle a bit to understand why someone would go to a comparison site and then choose a deal which was not at least reasonably close to 'the top of the list'.

I'm gradually working my way through your posts, so 'watch this space'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Hi,John... I’ve just got a quote directly from Together Energy;..their own website allows you to plug in your exact night usage of 48%,...the only 3 year ‘fixed tariff’ deal it brought up was called ‘Brexit protect April22’ = £114.47/month (£1373/yr) with £30 exit fee. .... Not sure whether the post-code is of any great significance,...but may be???,...

Many thanks. Postcode seems to make a very slight difference - with my postcode, I get £113.58/month (£1362.98/year). However, I suspect/presume that if one reads the small print, it will have the initial 20% increase in monthly payments, just like the other one.

However, that being said, if you access Together Energy’s ‘Tariff info’ there is no mention of a their own tariff called ‘Brexit protect April22’,....it’s obviously so new they’ve not caught up with themselves yet! If an eye-catching tariff pops up it doesn’t pay to hang around,...they generally don’t last long before being withdrawn.

Damnit The tariff I've been looking at "Brexit Protect December 2021" is still there on their 'Tariff Info' list - but, as you say, the new one isn't yet there. However, I fear the one I've been looking at is no longer available, such that my yearly total has gone up by about £55 since yesterday. Compared with what I have been looking at, they've slighly reduced the day unit rate, but appreciably increased the night rate and increased the standing charge a little.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Hi John, can you tell us the exact name of your present EON tariff please?; ... I assume the tariff you are interested in is called Together Energy ‘Brexit Protect December21’ ...is that correct? I’ll plug your info into CAB and have a squint. I’ll need to use my own post code of course and that will alter the figures to a degree, but if I use your present EON tariff, pay by monthly D/D, an E7 night usage of 50% and 9kwh per year the figures won’t be too dissimilar.

This is interesting (and a bit annoying - see my previous post!) ...

... That Together Energy tariff has now disappeared from the CAB site, and has been replaced by "today's" new one - and when I plug my figures into that, I get exactly the same figures for that as on the Together Energy site. However, compared with what it said about "yesterday's" tariff, it seems what I wrote a few minutes ago (about the "+20%) may be wrong - since, in comparison with what I posted yesterday, it sys something very different about the DD amount for this new tariff...

Expected Direct Debits
Electricity* £114.00 per month
* Your initial monthly Direct Debit is calculated by dividing the estimated annual spend by 12. This is based on what we currently know about your usage. Over time, as the supplier obtains meter readings they will understand your usage better and will be able to review your monthly Direct Debit.

... which does not present the potential problem (of my switching 'just before May') that I discussed yesterday.

My current tariff is "E.ON Go Online 1 Year v10". I could share my postcode with you privately if you wanted, but if you used it, you would presumably get exactly the same as I am seeing.

I therefore looks as if I need to make a decision soon, before I lose another £55/year (or whatever!)!

When I have made my decision, is there any advantage in arranging the switch through a comparison site, rather than directly with the supplier (assuming that, as is the case with Together Energy, the price is exactly the same either way)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Hi,John... I’ve just got a quote directly from Together Energy;..their own website allows you to plug in your exact night usage of 48%,...the only 3 year ‘fixed tariff’ deal it brought up was called ‘Brexit protect April22’ = £114.47/month (£1373/yr) with £30 exit fee. Not sure whether the post-code is of any great significance,...but may be???,...

As I recently wrote, I got virtually the same figures using my actual postcode.

However, it has just occurred to me that I've been contemplating this issue for several weeks, and have been working with a rough approximate estimate of consumption (9,000 kWh/year, 48% night). I've just looked at the actual figures, and my actual usage during the 12 months to yesterday has been 8,454 with 47.88% at night rate. Using those figures, the ‘Brexit protect April22’ costs £107.16/month (£1,285.97 per year) - which, for the next three years, is very similar to what I am paying currently (and set to 'rise into the clouds' in 4 weeks time if I stay with E.ON)....

... I think I'm coming close to a decision

Kind Regards, John