"Equal" pay rant!

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indentured apprentices today start in 40-50% of the full rate whereas when I started it was 20% for the first three months then upped to 25-30%; 2nd year it was 40% and even in the final year it was only around 80%.

Back in the day when I first started work, apprentices were paid a pittance. Idea being that you earned little for the company, the company were doing the apprentices a favour, paying them whilst teaching them a trade. It was a step up from earning nowt, whilst you were at school, but not intended to be 'a living wage', parents were still expected to provide them with financial support. To the good - the training was lengthy, and very thorough, unlike today's quick course and instant skills.

 

[gas112]

About 5 /6 years ago . Our local council paid apprentices (trade and office based) good money just over 8 quid an hour the office workers kicked up that there was not a big enough pay gap they were on about £8.60 an hour . So instead of the union fighting to get them a pay rise they dropped new start apprentices money by about 3 quid an hour . Labour council and unions doing this you couldnt make it up

 

[JohnD]

I'm all for "equality", but when did it become right that two people with dramatically different levels of experience get the same money?!

Which country did you grow up in?

Have you heard the term "free market economy?"

How do you think prices are arrived at?

Do you have a religion?

Study Matthew 20: 1 - 16

 

[ninjacat]

I'm a freelancer in the event industry, have been for over 10 years and am pretty well established.

Been working with someone new for the past couple of days, seemed nice enough, new graduate with sod all experience but seemed keen to learn, so I recommended her to one of my regular clients who've taken her on for a couple of jobs.

Then I made the mistake of asking what day rate she was asking for... It was just a few quid less than mine (the industry standard!)

I'm all for "equality", but when did it become right that two people with dramatically different levels of experience get the same money?!

Sorry, haven't read all the thread yet. Just to say, i also am self employed in the entertainment industry. All I can say us well done her for negotiating a good rate.

 

[blup]

Who is setting them up to fail?

I've just recommended her to my biggest client, I just expected her to know what pay she should be asking for!

And they expect her to know the job. So how is anyone trained in what seems to be a fairly unregulated industry with short term self employment. What industry recognised qualification will she be expected to get, if any. Who interviewed her or did the agency just send her because someone was needed who could hit the ground running. Sounds like she’s winged it successfully, the question is how long she will last.

Blup

 

[Mottie]

Who is setting them up to fail?

I've just recommended her to my biggest client, I just expected her to know what pay she should be asking for!

Would you be happy if she did a good job for half the price you charge? Do you think your biggest client would still be your biggest client if that worked out? Best you can hope for is that she fûcks up and you get to keep your client.

 

[Deleted member 307320]

Would you be happy if she did a good job for half the price you charge? Do you think your biggest client would still be your biggest client if that worked out? Best you can hope for is that she fûcks up and you get to keep your client.

I keep my client regardless, she can't do 90% of what I can do...

Why would I want someone I'd recommended to **** things up?

 

[Mottie]

I keep my client regardless, she can't do 90% of what I can do...

Why would I want someone I'd recommended to **** things up?

Because you seem to have reservations and possibly regrets on your recommendations now.

A few years ago now, I recommended someone for a simple job in a car for a regular customer that I couldn’t do as I was away on holiday. An enthusiastic amateur that could easily do the job. They did it but charged twice as much as I would have because it took them three times as long to do it!

 

[Deleted member 307320]

Because you seem to have reservations and possibly regrets on your recommendations now.

About her wage expectations yes...

Since when did an apprentice expect to get the same as the time served people?!

 

[Mottie]

Since when did an apprentice expect to get the same as the time served people?!

Nowadays, complete novices think they are worth more than time served people. It’s the way of the world!

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I'm assuming you thought she was good enough to be recommended.

In which case she is worth what they are prepared to pay.

The only real question is will they keep her longer term

 

[Brigadier]

But I already charge a very similar amount to my equally experienced colleagues!

I can't price myself out of work simply because one newbie overestimates how much she's worth!

I don't think they will be happy, which is a bit awkward as I recommended her...

At the end of the day, it's of no consequence to me, I'm just a bit confused as to why a newcomer would assume she was worth as much as an experienced person!

Think it must be a generational thing...

I think you're in the wrong here, are all over the place, and are just coming across as "salty".

You're prattling on about "experience", and that they know 10% of what you do.
You're concerned that your good customers might think less of you, based on whatever work they do, or what they charge.

YOU RECOMMENDED THEM.

IMHO, recommendations - if you value your own reputation - are made on whether you'd be happy to stake your own reputation on what they deliver.
Yet you're saying they are not even half the person - workwise - that you are.
You say they lack experience.
You say they are a "newcomer".

(What they charge is, unless you had a hand in setting the rate, entirely between the client and the contractor).



On what basis did you recommend this inexperienced "newcomer" to one of your biggest customers?

 

[ninjacat]

You are a freelancer. Truthfully you are a self employed sub contractor in the eyes of the law.

That means you are a business. Stop talking about wages. You charge for your services and it is your choice what you charge in the same way as it is hers.

If you go for the average then so be it, you will get work. If you charge premium and get it then well done.

 

[Deleted member 307320]

On what basis did you recommend this inexperienced "newcomer" to one of your biggest customers?

I recommended her as an apprentice, I expected her to expect an apprentice wage!

As for "salty", wouldn't you be put out if you'd recommended someone only to find out they had completely unrealistic expectations?!

 

[ninjacat]

... find out they had completely unrealistic expectations?!

Obviously they were not unrealistic.