EU referendum

[AronSearle]

I understood that people voted for admission to the EEC, but that the metamorphosis of this free-trade organisation into a political superstate was engineered by politicians.

The people were duped.
What layman could ever have understood the small print?

Yea, its not like there was a no campaign that specifically spelt out that a yes vote would mean more European governance.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

Oh wait....

When was that published? Wasn't that when the EEC was a free-trade organisation and well before it became a political union?

The clue is in the link.

And wiki is your friend

The government distributed pamphlets to every household in Britain written by the official Yes and No campaigns, together with its own pamphlet which argued in support of EEC membership

I mean, people were spoonfed this stuff, and still want to claim "how could we have possibly known"?

Yes, how indeed


And really, a multi national free trade body, not a political body? How is that even possible!

 

[JBR]

I understood that people voted for admission to the EEC, but that the metamorphosis of this free-trade organisation into a political superstate was engineered by politicians.

The people were duped.
What layman could ever have understood the small print?

Yea, its not like there was a no campaign that specifically spelt out that a yes vote would mean more European governance.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

Oh wait....

When was that published? Wasn't that when the EEC was a free-trade organisation and well before it became a political union?

The clue is in the link.

And wiki is your friend

The government distributed pamphlets to every household in Britain written by the official Yes and No campaigns, together with its own pamphlet which argued in support of EEC membership

I mean, people were spoonfed this stuff, and still want to claim "how could we have possibly known"?

Yes, how indeed


And really, a multi national free trade body, not a political body? How is that even possible!

Well, in the absence of a direct answer I can only assume that this publication was issued when (as I assumed) we were thinking of joining the EEC when it existed as a free-trade organisation.

To clarify, I am completely in favour of our being a member of a European free-trade organisation. However, I cannot but see the absolute futility of our remaining in the EU, which is an organisation that constantly strives to impose it's own rules, for its own benefit alone, upon us.

 

[AronSearle]

Well, in the absence of a direct answer I can only assume that this publication was issued when (as I assumed) we were thinking of joining the EEC when it existed as a free-trade organisation.

I posted the date, and posted a link showing a copy was given to every houshold before the vote.

I am unsure how more direct my answer could be?

 

[JBR]

Well, in the absence of a direct answer I can only assume that this publication was issued when (as I assumed) we were thinking of joining the EEC when it existed as a free-trade organisation.

I posted the date

Where?

 

[AronSearle]

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

The clue is in the link, if you can't figure that out...........?

And I told you twice that these pamphlets where posted to voters before the election.

Face it, people had this stuff spoon fed to them, anyone who claims "we didn't know" has zero credibility.

That is why there is no referendum now, people voted for the EU, and they don't really do much other than grumble and moan to get another referendum.

What reason do the government have to think it is anything but a noisy minority that want us out of the EU.

 

[Norcon]

The NRC was underfunded and out gunned by government funded propaganda pahmplets and advertising campaigns.

Polls have revealed 70% of Britons want to leave the eu.

That's why many slimy politicians don't want a referendum.

 

[JBR]

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

The clue is in the link, if you can't figure that out...........?

And I told you twice that these pamphlets where posted to voters before the election.

Face it, people had this stuff spoon fed to them, anyone who claims "we didn't know" has zero credibility.

That is why there is no referendum now, people voted for the EU, and they don't really do much other than grumble and moan to get another referendum.

What reason do the government have to think it is anything but a noisy minority that want us out of the EU.

You continue to miss my point. When people were invited to vote (and I don't know exactly what year it was either! ) the EEC was advertised as a free-trade organisation.

I would agree with that too, although I didn't vote at the time.

Since then, however, and without our having any say in the matter, it has transformed itself into a political wannabe superstate - the EU.

 

[jockscott]

That is why there is no referendum now, people voted for the EU.

Sadly in 1975, people voted for the EEC. An entirely different species from the leech that is the present EU.

 

[JBR]

I hope the message got through at last!

 

[AronSearle]

the EEC was advertised as a free-trade organisation.

I have advertisments for penis enlargement in my inbox, do you think they work?

If someone of electiable age can't figure out that adverts may be misleading, they have no-one to blame but themselves.

People were sent information from both the YES and the NO group, before the election, they both gave conflicting information, it is not hard to figure out one of them must be lying.

So keep grasping at straws, people were given the information, they didnt bother to educate themselves, only an idiot can claim "we voted for the EEC as a free-trade organisation, how could we know!", only an idiot can make that claim, because only an idiot can be that gullible.

Sadly in 1975, people voted for the EEC. An entirely different species from the leech that is the present EU

The treaty of rome (1957 document leading to the creation of the EEC) is not a complicated document to grasp, a layman should be able to read just the first few pages (extracts below) and glean some imporant facts.

This is what people were voting to join.

DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of
Europe,
RESOLVED to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common
action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,
AFFIRMING as the essential objective of their efforts the constant improvement of the
living and working conditions of their peoples,
RECOGNISING that the removal of existing obstacles calls for concerted action in
order to guarantee steady expansion, balanced trade and fair competition,
ANXIOUS to strengthen the unity of their economies and to ensure their harmonious
development by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the
backwardness of the less favoured regions,
DESIRING to contribute, by means of a common commercial policy, to the progressive
abolition of restrictions on international trade,
INTENDING to confirm the solidarity which binds Europe and the overseas countries
and desiring to ensure the development of their prosperity, in accordance with the
principles of the Charter of the United Nations,
RESOLVED by thus pooling their resources to preserve and strengthen peace and
liberty, and calling upon the other peoples of Europe who share their ideal to join in
their efforts, [/i]

Whyup, suure sounds like nothing but a free trade body to me

the creation of a European Social Fund in order to improve employment
opportunities for workers and to contribute to the raising of their standard of
living;
(j) the establishment of a European Investment Bank to facilitate the economic
expansion of the Community by opening up fresh resources; ARTICLE 4
1. The tasks entrusted to the Community shall be carried out by the following
institutions:
an ASSEMBLY [EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT],
a COUNCIL,
a COMMISSION,
a COURT OF JUSTICE.

Hmmmm, yes, who could possibly have forseen that a social system, a european bank, a european *parliment*, and a *court of justice *, could possibly have lead to the modern EU.

Wait, THAT IS THE EU

Give up the argument and face the fact that I am (like always) winning this argument.

You voted for an EU, you got an EU.

 

[JBR]

Calm down dear!

I didn't vote for anything.

I would have voted for a free-trade organisation.

I would not have voted for any political union that would entail surrendering all or part of our sovereignty.

 

[AronSearle]

Calm down dear!

I didn't vote for anything.

I would have voted for a free-trade organisation.

I would not have voted for any political union that would entail surrendering all or part of our sovereignty.

Bit slow are we?

You can't have a free trade multi governmental organisation WITHOUT it becoming a federal organisation.

You can have free trade agreements, but not free trade government organisations without the government bit.

 

[JBR]

Calm down dear!

I didn't vote for anything.

I would have voted for a free-trade organisation.

I would not have voted for any political union that would entail surrendering all or part of our sovereignty.

Bit slow are we?

You can't have a free trade multi governmental organisation WITHOUT it becoming a federal organisation.

You can have free trade agreements, but not free trade government organisations without the government bit.

I see.

http://www.efta.int/about-efta/european-free-trade-association

 

[jockscott]

Aaron, there's nothing in the Treaty of Rome about giving up sovereignty, or any mention of the EU forcing their laws upon us. This all came about later on. Something over which the electorate had very little (if any) control.

 

[AronSearle]

Aaron, there's nothing in the Treaty of Rome about giving up sovereignty,

So what you saying is that an organization dedicated towards closer union, trade laws, social security, that has its own parliament and courts, can do all this without affecting sovereignty.