Faulty Economy 7 timer

[JohnW2]

Yes it does, using neutral switching I recall,...

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

The wire from the timer back to the meter is a neutral and it switches the rate over

 

[JohnW2]

The wire from the timer back to the meter is a neutral and it switches the rate over

I'm afraid that I still don't really understand. If the 'switched output' line from the timer to the meter is 'a neutral', what potentials are it at in the timer's 'on' and 'off' states respectively?

Kind Regards, John

 

[crystal ball]

Dunno but thats what we were told on a training course about E7 white meters circa 83, and on meter fiddling video using earth to fake a neutral to switch over

 

[JohnW2]

Dunno but thats what we were told on a training course about E7 white meters circa 83, and on meter fiddling video using earth to fake a neutral to switch over

I think there must have been some misunderstanding, since it doesn't really make sense. Indeed, I'm not sure what 'being a neutral'. If the conductor were always at neutral potential, it would obviously be useless as a means of signalling to the meter - to be able to 'signal', it has to be at/near L potential for "on" and at/near N potential for "off", or vice versa.

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

to be able to 'signal', it has to be at/near L potential for "on" and at/near N potential for "off", or vice versa.

The signal wire is neutral for low rate, not connected for standard rate.

 

[JohnW2]

The signal wire is neutral for low rate, not connected for standard rate.

What potential does it rise to when 'not connected'? (I would have assumed around L potential).

However, I take the point - if it is an 'active low' signal wire, such that switching to low rate is achieved by the timeswitch connecting the signal wire to N, then one could, as suggested, replicate that by connecting it to earth (or N). However, I'm not sure that makes much difference - if one can gain access to the conductor of the signal wire to connect it to N or E, one could just as easily have connected it to L if it were an 'active high' signal.

Mind you, I still think its very confusing to describe that signal wire as 'a neutral', even if it is 'active low'

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would imagine the 'switched' neutral switches on a solenoid/relay which moves mechanically a cog, or similar, to engage the low register digits instead of the high.

I presume the company would like it to fail to the high rate.

 

[winston1]

I’m intrigued how a time switch which usually runs off a synchronous motor can run about 10% fast. I could see it running slow if it was gummed up but fast, just can’t get it

 

[JohnW2]

I would imagine the 'switched' neutral switches on a solenoid/relay which moves mechanically a cog, or similar, to engage the low register digits instead of the high.

Well, yes, regardless of whether one switches the L or the N, I imagine that the completion of the circuit activates an electromagnetic device such as you suggest.

I presume the company would like it to fail to the high rate.

Indeed - but that's just a question of how the 'electromagnetic device' is arranged ('mechanically'), regardless of whether it is activated/deactivated by switching the N or L.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I’m intrigued how a time switch which usually runs off a synchronous motor can run about 10% fast. I could see it running slow if it was gummed up but fast, just can’t get it

Good point, but I suppose that if some of the gears had become very worn or broken, they might be slipping/spinning around faster than they should.

 

[typonaut]

However, what is switching your storage heaters on/off at the appropriate times 0 that is presumably being controlled, directly or indirectly, by that timeswitch (unless you have a separate one)?

I'm guessing, but my guess is that the timer is switching supplies to the meter, and the meter only has a connection to the storage heaters/low rate immersion heater when it is on the "low" rate (via the consumer unit, where there is obviously a separate switch/circuit for the off-peak load).

There's a little arrow on the meter that switches between the "low" and "normal" as the timer clock trips the little tabs on the dial. It is a very analogue setup.

 

[typonaut]

I last had a meter and timeswitch like yours about 25 years ago.

Yes, it is probably about 30 years old. I think the electrics were redone just before I moved in (1990), all the storage heaters, etc were new and unused. The block had just been renovated.

 

[typonaut]

I’m intrigued how a time switch which usually runs off a synchronous motor can run about 10% fast. I could see it running slow if it was gummed up but fast, just can’t get it

Good point, but I suppose that if some of the gears had become very worn or broken, they might be slipping/spinning around faster than they should.

When they eventually come and fix it I'll ask them for the scrap, then I can send it to you and give us a post-mortem report.

I don't know why it is doing it, but it's old, and evidently broken, so any number of things could be amiss.

 

[typonaut]

Ironically, they just sent me an email promoting their smart meters!?

Then, when I do some searching around their site I find:

We don't currently offer new 2 rate meters, so you can't switch from a standard meter to a 2 rate meter at the moment.

We hope to be able to offer 2 rate tariffs on our smart meters in the future. Find out more about our smart meter roll-out.

https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/115003610092-Two-rate-meters-including-Economy-7-